The Green (peace??) free-for-all succession game

[Elephant]

Lunch wasn't enough time so I emailed this home to finish this evening.

SitRep:
- got 14 cities, all size 3 or less
- 5 settlers, 3 ships, 1 Legion, 1 Archer (that's it?)
- contact Amer and Carth (no emb); both on Cont#11
- most cities have first cit unhappy
- research 11t@25b=252b @70% in Monarchy
- researching Trade (for MarcoPolo?)
- current WoW options: Pyr/LH/Ora/GW
- Bighorn has 192, 3Forks has 95
- 5 cities building Dips for BH, 1 for 3F

Summary:
We are expanding too slowly, and not attacking or exploring enough; need production and research upgrade, growth downgrade

275BC ACK: LightHouse built in Thebes! should have read SB's report more carefully...change LH in BH to GW to delay

250BC Hut(138,26): NOMADS(???? on grass?);
load on ship

225BC Hut(146,20): NOMADS!
found Silver Moon east of Big Mound
Carth start Pyramids

200BC disorder CC (addl redface)

175BC disorder SL (4th cit)

150BC found Wildcat Valley

125BC disorder KillDeer (addl redface)
WLTChiefD cancelled in LitBig due to extra red, drops research way down, move Warrior from WK

discover TRADE; start Math
WLTChD restarted in LB
100BC disorder RageBrook (3rd cit)
switch LB to MPE
found GreatRiver

75BC disorder SL (extra redface)
MarcoPolo in LitBig!
====================
MARCO POLO MANIPULATION
Russ have 8 cities, 5 white techs, WAR Jap
Jap have 2 cities, 1 white (Math!), WAR Russ
French have 6 cities (building GL in 2), 1 white
Egypt has 5 cities, 1 white techs (incl Rep)
Amer have 3 cities (building Pyr), 2 white techs
Carth have 5 cities (building Pyr), 2 white techs
--------------------
Icy Japs,0Sp,dem Iron for peace,Neut,exch Sea forMATH,gift Mon,Cur to Enthus,sh maps,end
(Japs well east of home island, catapult attacking UR? - restarts on?)
Enthus Amer,1Sp,exch Tra for WARCODE,decline alliance,sh maps,bye
Recep Egypt,5Sp,peace,gift Tra to Worsh,sh maps,bye
Recep French,2Sp,peace,gift Tra to Enthus,sh maps,bye
(ah so thats the new land exploring ship just found)
Neut Russ,4Sp,dem Maps for peace,gift Sea,Math to Enthus,sh maps,bye
(wow- long cont, #11 same as Carth/Amer!)
--------------------
found Seven Brothers

French near GL
Carth near Pyr
restart (Ast/Cst/Hor/Lit) Horse
disorder RB (extra redface)
Settlers BM
50BC Enthus Russ(4Sp) exch Mon for HORSEBACK
Hut(151,11): 50g

Now have 18 cities, 5 ships and 6 dips, MarcoPolo and all maps, chance to start Feud next turn

note: Russian settler on SouthPole south of 3Forks; ship with dip nearby to attempt bribe

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

We seem to be doing well I'll try to squeeze in some turns now...

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

10 Green - as in sickly - turns.

50 BC: Quick audit reveals no rule violations
What are we building the GW for? Nothing worth changing it to, unfortunately. Science rate is an unhappy 13 turns/tech. Priority is a Lib and grow Little Bighorn as much as we can - we can't really go a-conquering the evil carnivorous AIs with Phalanges. Press enter

Barbarians capture Marseilles from French
Japanese recapture Ur from Russians. Interesting, that - how could the Japanese recapture Ur, since both the
Babylonians and Japanese are green?
Great Library built by French in Orleans
French start Oracle
Pyramids built by Carthaginians in Carthage.
Americans switch to Great Wall

We have the option to research Astronomy (Cope's), Feudalism (Pikemen=better defenders, which might help due to our lack of mounted units), Literacy (leads to Philo) or Polytheism (leads to Mono). After some debate, we choose Polytheism...

25 BC: Temple rushed in Little Bighorn. Next step: Library, and some roading with Settlers followed by 'b'ing them into LB.

1 AD: Temple in LB. Hut at (72,32) = 5 Horsemen barbs.
Russian Settlers S. of Three Forks would cost 264g Thanks anyway

20 AD: Nothing interesting. Diplomacy has been fruitless (I would like to get to Mono before anyone else; thus no tech swapping).

40 AD: Barbarians destroy [/b]Wildcat Valley[/b] Horse troops would have helped
Hut (144,0) yields supported Elephant - disbanded.

60 AD: Hut (99,41) yields Nomads.

80 AD: Hut (121,79) yields 3 Horsemen barbs.
War with Russians
Russians liberate Ur from Japanese

100 AD: Hut (97,47) yields AT Snake Canyon. Must check to see if banned specials are in radius.

120 AD: First Wind founded. Gift Horseback Riding to Japanese in the hopes of alliance/tribute - nada

Barbarians capture Great River

140 AD: Library in Little Bighorn, research down to 8 turns with 2 Eins. If the city didn't have a natural food shortage, I'd Xin it.
50 g from Japanese. War with Americans, gift Trade to Carthaginians, get war in return

Egyptians learn Philosophy and Banking.

160 AD: Polytheism discovered; we start to learn Construction with an eye to swapping for it and switching to Monotheism.
Swap Warrior Code to Japanese for Construction, Japanese gift us 50 g.
Hut at (122,0) yields NONE Elephants, disbanded.
Hut at (103,25) yields AT Yellowtree

That's enough for now. Lost 2 cities, built 3 I've been building Legions for defence, but Catapults would be just as good, I expect.

10 turns (or fewer if you can't play 10) from here on in, until further notice anyway.

[Elephant]

Re: 10 Green - as in sickly - turns.

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man

What are we building the GW for? Nothing worth changing it to, unfortunately.

The thought was prepping for SunTzu, but that's a future call... then again, it might be good to deny it to the AI, since we're kinda short in the attack department...

Japanese recapture Ur from Russians. Interesting, that - how could the Japanese recapture Ur, since both the Babylonians and Japanese are green?

My question too - sure restarts are off?

We have the option to research Ast/Feud/Lit/PT. After some debate, we choose Polytheism...

The thought was Feud for SunTzu; we can't use Crucs and no one's got Phil yet, plus our research is hurting. Doubt we can wait for tanks... BTW, Russians have PT...

Russian Settlers S. of Three Forks would cost 264g Thanks anyway

Sorry. Worth a try.

[Elephant]

Originally posted by Old n Slow

825 (7) -- (*Babs destroyed by Russians)

Hmmm - looks like restarts are on...

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

Sun Tzu isn't a bad idea. I hadn't thought along those lines. Then again, since we won't be able to trade until forever, I thought that Mike's could solve some happiness issues and then provide some built-in cash flow if (when?) we make the jump to Fundamentalism, down the road.

Restarts are definitely on. I was wondering how the Japanese could "recapture" Ur, since they could never have captured it in the first place (the Babs can't have an active city while the Japanese are in the game). Unless, of course, the logic of the program treats all formerly green cities as former cities of the current green civ.

Undoubtably I would have done better to think more about my tech path and less about the ultimate origins of Ur. I didn't aim for Philo just because I didn't see us getting it - tech rate was slow. I wanted to aim for a Wonder worth having - Sun Tzu would be as good a choice as Mikes, and certainly would be better in the short and medium term.

On the plus size, our tech rate has improved somewhat. Xinning will be hard to manage, due to not being able to irrigate, but it will help make up for our not being able to use some of the more useful trade specials like whales and silk.

[Sharkbait]

A question - are we allowed to road anywhere or just the shortest route like railroad? There is abit of road I built up near Raging Brook that defies the shortest route (goes nowhere). I will scourge myself with branches that have fallen naturally off a tree if necessary.

There's a warrior due to be finished in Little Bighorn next turn - ?

How about soon Astro for Copes in LBH?

Looks like we could use a few more ships and more cities on the Big Mound / Silver Moon continent, and a port city on Running Bear island (how about 149,23?). Canal City north of Snake Canyon too and also say 105,37 (oasis) for north / south. Also near the Russians theres a hill / canal which could be nice defensively at 76,40.

Please ignore the following if its against the rules.
A bit of black clicking finds island #23 to the west of Stony Lake (at 125,67) and it reaches up to near Yellowtree. Can be reached safely with a trireme too from 133,67.

[Grigor]

The lurkers always like to hear about Barbarians trashing human cities. This looks like a challenging set of retrictions.

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by Grigor
The lurkers always like to hear about Barbarians trashing human cities. This looks like a challenging set of retrictions.

Not all lurkers are quite as blood thirsty as Grigor.

Some of us watch your exploits with admiration and astonishment, cheering your every success and sharing your pain at the rare failure.

Happy Holidays everyone

RJM at Sleeper's

[StuporMan]

Originally posted by Six Thousand Year Old Man
Restarts are definitely on. I was wondering how the Japanese could "recapture" Ur, since they could never have captured it in the first place (the Babs can't have an active city while the Japanese are in the game). Unless, of course, the logic of the program treats all formerly green cities as former cities of the current green civ.

It does, at least in the .SAV file. The previous owner byte is only valid for values <= 7. I believe any other value causes a game crash.

It looks like things are going relatively well so far in this game. Though if we are serious about conquest victory I would think phalanx + cat would be the way to go until we progress further down the tech tree.

On that note, would it be worthwhile to send a strike force to take Thebes and capture two relatively important world wonders? Lighthouse would probably be of the most benefit as it would allow quicker acess to the Egyptians and other civs, as of now we will probably have to wait until navigation to realistically make war with what appears to be our main rival. Oh, but Thebes has an illegal special in the city radius so that tactic is out. I guess we will have to make war with our closer foes.

It appears to me the the Great Wall may not be such a bad world wonder to pick up. We are having problems with barbarians and taking cities will cost many more units than if we used mounted units. Thus, city protection will be quite difficult for us to manage once we get aggressive. It also keeps it out of the hands of the AI, which is a definite plus. The downside is that we will always receive peace as an option from the AI, making them harder to negotiate with. It also makes it take longer to get other wonders like Sun Tzu and Mikes, so maybe we should wait on GW unless another civ makes it a target.

Ok, that is all the Civ analysis time I can spare for one day. I would love to take a turnset in this game, but my time is quite limited. Most of my Civ time is going into improving my Supply and Demand Calculator. Hopefully I will be releasing a prerelease version that can read .SAV files soon. Maybe around the time it would be useful for this game, if coding continues to go well.

StuporMan

[Six Thousand Year Old Man]

The road rule is a hard one - I think I have been violating it myself. If you have enough cities in a small area, you can really road everything up by putting a "shortest route" from each city to every other city. I have been doing a little of this on our home island, myself. The other issue is that I think we may have lost a city at the end of a road... I don't have the game in front of me so I can't say for sure.

The Warrior in LBH was for martial law, IIRC. Either that or I was incrementally rushbuying. Please feel free to change to something else if necessary...

Wonders are going to be tricky in this game... without Caravans, and with relatively few shield specials being worked, they'll take forever to build. Copes would be good in LBH, but with the shield production there it will be a painful build. Even with disbanded diplomats to help.

Originally posted by Sharkbait
A question - are we allowed to road anywhere or just the shortest route like railroad? There is abit of road I built up near Raging Brook that defies the shortest route (goes nowhere). I will scourge myself with branches that have fallen naturally off a tree if necessary.

There's a warrior due to be finished in Little Bighorn next turn - ?

How about soon Astro for Copes in LBH?

Looks like we could use a few more ships and more cities on the Big Mound / Silver Moon continent, and a port city on Running Bear island (how about 149,23?). Canal City north of Snake Canyon too and also say 105,37 (oasis) for north / south. Also near the Russians theres a hill / canal which could be nice defensively at 76,40.

Please ignore the following if its against the rules.
A bit of black clicking finds island #23 to the west of Stony Lake (at 125,67) and it reaches up to near Yellowtree. Can be reached safely with a trireme too from 133,67.

[Elephant]

Originally posted by Sharkbait
A question - are we allowed to road anywhere or just the shortest route like railroad? There is abit of road I built up near Raging Brook that defies the shortest route (goes nowhere).

Of course, we could claim to be planning a future city placement on some of those extra roads. At one point I was roading toward a site, but then my ship revealed a Whale in the black and I had to build the city elsewhere.

[Sharkbait]

Who's up next? Old n Slow or solo?

[Sharkbait]

I've played 10 turns, and will post if wanted, or am happy to let others post their efforts - let me know if you're playing. Otherwise I'll post tomorrow or the next day. Merry Xmas and a Happy New Year to all!

[Old n Slow]

Go ahead & post -- if there is a lull, I may sneak in a few turns tomorrow night or so.