Warlords of China update

[techumseh]

Originally posted by Boco


So, is it your intention that the Commies remain invincible throughout the scenario? You might want to make the AGRICOLA Line stacked so that unit sabotage is not an option either (not that I've looked enough to see whether that tactic is even feasible in WoC! ).

The intention is that the Communists can't be eliminated as a civ, allowing the possibility of other events such as guerrilla warfare or the Long March to be added later via events, if all the Communist bases in China proper were to be captured. I haven't got around to that yet, though.

I also used bribery to capture some of the ChiCom base cities, as they're placed mostly on hills to make them difficult to attack successfully. I may add some spare techs to their tech tree to make them more expensive to bribe. Would adding courthouses do the same thing?

[techumseh]

@AGRICOLA: Would making the barbarian controlled cities tougher to capture make the scenario more interesting?

Can you also try it as one of the Warlord civs? They have monarchy gov'ts and might prove more challenging once their territory starts to get very large.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
As this is my first exposure to the turbulence of China in the first half of the 20th century, I'm finding it absolutely fascinating.

If you're interested in finding out more, here are two books I used in making the scenario:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1855326655/ref=sib_dp_pt/102-7832019-0347314#reader-page

http://www.us.oup.com/us/catalog/general/subject/HistoryWorld/Asian/?view=usa&ci=9780195861792

[Palaiologos]

Originally posted by techumseh
Would adding courthouses do the same thing?

Yes. They would require double the normal amount of gold to be bribed.

[techumseh]

Looks like Chairman Mao is going to be establishing some 'People's Courts'. Landlords beware! Are there any other improvements which increase bribe costs?

[Palaiologos]

No.
City size and goverment type only.
Units stationed inside apparently have no effect.

[our_man]

I think distance from the capital also plays a role, as does if a city is in civil disorder.

[Palaiologos]

Yeah these too.

[fairline]

Hey, I didn't realise you'd nearly finished Tech. Nice one

I'd ask for a playtest copy, but I think Agri will more than have playetesting covered.

[AGRICOLA]

Rather than strengthening the defences of barb cities to slow down the Kuomintang, would you considered changing the Koumintang government to Monarchy in order to level the playing field. I tried this by forcing government to Monarchy both early in the scen and Jan 1920. Initially the decrease in flasks and income per turn is not great. However there is a cascade effect so that by 1920, compared to Republic, the research rate and cash flow are only ~65%. Counteracting this is that under Monarchy: units stationed in cities will improve happiness so that less has to be spent on shrines and other happiness improvements; and the first three units homed to a city need no support.

IMHO, the rate of Kuomintang expansion is determined by the number of Mortars that it can manage to build and make into vet units, plus a vet Chiang unit and a few vet Artillery. Once the total of offensive units reaches ~12, rapid expansion becomes possible. The idea would be to try delay this buildup until at least 1925. Monarchy might be able to accomplish this by constraining the money supply and rate of research.

If not, then the extra Pirate unit or the Tong Gangster (sorry, I can't see building a non-vet, one-shot, A/D=6/2 unit for 40 shields when for 50 shields I can get a Mortar with A/D=8/2 and ignore city walls) could become a City Garrison unit with D=6 but non-vet and immobile. I see these as being local levies with minimum training but ready to fight tooth and nail for home, family and the tombs of honored ancestors.


I'm afraid that I can't entirely agree with

Originally posted by Techumseh
Most techs are not worth trading anyway, since only the first to research gets the units.

The ability to trade techs plays a major role in the first years of the scen. The key move is to get the various "Deal" techs as quickly as possible so that one can research any of the "Unit" techs that are or become available.

I checked the WOC Operational Summary from 1916 to Jan 1920. The importance of being able to trade techs is evident from the following:

Techs Discovered:
Army
Diplomacy
French Deal
British Deal
Char Schneider
Armoured Train 1

Techs Exchanged:
French Deal for Navy
French Deal for Soviet Deal
British Deal for White Russ. Deal
Char Schneider for FE 2b
FE 2b for German-Ital. Deal
Char Schneider for 600 gold (Kuominchun demanded the tech and Kuomintang gave it to them and then asked for help. They offered 600 gold. Good deal.)
Despite trading for the FE 2b tech, Kuomintang got the unit because the other civ did not have British Deal.

At this point, the Kuomintang has 5 of the 6 "Deal" techs, enough to research almost any "Unit" tech that become available in March, 1920. The Gunboat, which requires American Deal, is not a unit that I would bother researching at this stage of the scen.


I looked at several alternatives for ensuring that Comintern cannot be captured. One way would be to get rid of Naval Infantry, change the 3 land squares in front of the city to polluted ocean and change the Comintern city square to something that produces 3 foods. Your idea of a high D, immobile unit looks better.


You probably have spotted the following minor points:
Desert + Camels appears as Desert + Oil on the map.
New eras start in March, 1920; March, 1925 and so on, rather than in January. Or, is this merely a matter of semantics?


I finished my current game in Jan 1920 after a lightning 2-turn advance to Shanghai and Hangchow, during which 11 barb cities were captured in eastern China. Mad Dog's uprising in the Chefoo area is being contained and worn down by a fortified Armored Train and a Char Schneider in Tsingtao. Spies are en-route to 2 of the 4 commie cities in the area. The League of 5 Provinces is next on the list. I see little point in continuing past this point.


However, as you requested, I'm about to begin another game, playing the indomitable, illustrious and dissolute Warlord, Sun Ch'uan-fang, of the League of 5 Provinces. Why good old Sun? He's the lone SOB whose territory is not surrounded by barbs. Also, the glittering prize of Shanghai is nearby.


This is really none of my business but, once you make any alterations you deem advisable to WOC, you might want to take up the offer of the strategic genius who carried out the brilliant "Left Hook" maneouvre in Market Garden to do a final playtest.

[techumseh]

You mean Gen. "Lefty" Birch, of XXX Corps? He got a playtest package a while ago.

I heard he's now a retired Brigadier and writes thin books extolling the virtues of British WWII ordinance.

[techumseh]

He's written a book too, it seems.

[AGRICOLA]

You mean Gen. "Lefty" Birch, of XXX Corps? He got a playtest package a while ago.

I heard he's now a retired Brigadier and writes thin books extolling the virtues of British WWII ordinance.

Indeed, that is the gentleman I was referring to. General "Lefty" is a true renaissance man ...... a leader of armies, demonstrably a superb strategist and, since retirement, a historian, a man of letters as well as a truly gifted military artist.

[fairline]

Originally posted by techumseh
He's written a book too, it seems.

It's subtitled 'How two jolly good chaps wearing skirts and a dashed cove with no legs and a furry animal on his head defeated the entire German VI Panzerarmee armed with a sporran and a pop-gun, all before tea-time.'

[fairline]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA


Indeed, that is the gentleman I was referring to. General "Lefty" is a true renaissance man ...... a leader of armies, demonstrably a superb strategist and, since retirement, a historian, a man of letters as well as a truly gifted military artist.

I'm underway with a playtest John. I think between us we cover the entire spectrum of civving-skill from 'easily-distracted by shiny objects' (me) to 'Big Blue' (you)