Exploiting the musketeer and knight slot feature

[:) Smiley]

Now in the past we've thought of the Musketeer slot and Gunpowder, as well as the Knight slot as something to avoid, as it makes all units with weaker stats and the same move point go obsolete.

Here however, I'm thinking of using it as a feature to prevent one civ from building certain units.

My question is how exactly do the mechanics of this work?

From Sleague:

The game will not let any nation (computer- or player-controlled) build any unit other than the one in the musketeer slot if it can be built or if a nation controls just one such unit! This affects all ground units wherever they reside in units.txt, and regardless of their scenario roles. It's best to use this slot for units only available to barbarians so the problem does not occur. Note: This is 'version dependent' - in that some versions of Civ2 will allow the 'earlier' slots to be active even though the musketeer slot is open to the building schedule. The bottom line - handle with care.


The computer does a similar analysis with the knight unit slot and all units with movement allowances greater than one (anything from horsemen to crusaders, plus any earlier unit with the same movement allowance). A designer must be careful to have a unit with the lowest defense value here if there are earlier units being built.

From Poly forum

The rule is that when the tech in the gunpowder slot is discovered all units become obsolete that have a role of 1 and a defense less than the unit in the Mustketeer slot, regardless of whether the unit in the musketeer slot is buildable nor not.

From Civfan

Gun Powder
Gun Powder is the trigger advance which disallows the construction of units with the same role as the unit in the musketeer slot and with inferior attack/defence factors than the musketeer unit. I strongly suggest you either do not use the gun powder tech or do not use the musketeer unit slot. (the Knight slot has a similar effect but I have not been able to isolate the trigger advance).

Or is this more trouble than its worth, and I ought to just use the "Reverse obsolescence technology" method where Civ A gets the tech that makes Civ B's units obsolete?

[techumseh]

My understanding is that once the unit in that slot becomes buildable for a particular civ, the units of the same type to the left of the slot become unbuildable for that civ. I don't know what factors determine "of the same type". I assume it's the role and/or the movement.

I think the idea has merit.

[:) Smiley]

In that case, looks like it's time for some experimentation.

[:) Smiley]

Test results:
First run rules.txt

Warriors,     Feu, 0,  1.,0,  1a,1d,  1h,1f,  1,0,  1, nil, 000000000000000
Phalanx,      Feu, 0,  1.,0,  1a,4d,  1h,1f,  2,0,  1, nil, 000000000000000
Archers,      Gun, 0,  1.,0,  3a,3d,  1h,1f,  3,0,  1, nil, 000000000000000
Legion,       Gun, 0,  1.,0,  4a,2d,  1h,1f,  4,0,  1, nil, 000000000000000
Pikemen,      Gun, 0,  1.,0,  1a,2d,  1h,1f,  2,0,  1, nil, 000010000000000
Musketeers,   Csc, 0,  1.,0,  3a,3d,  2h,1f,  3,0,  1, Gun, 000000000000000
Fanatics,     nil, 0,  1.,0,  4a,4d,  2h,1f,  2,0,  1, nil, 000100000000000
Partisans,    nil, 0,  1.,0,  4a,4d,  2h,1f,  5,0,  1, nil, 000001000000010
Alpine Troops,nil, 0,  1.,0,  5a,2d,  2h,1f,  5,0,  1, nil, 000001000000000
Riflemen,     nil, 0,  1.,0,  2a,4d,  2h,1f,  4,0,  1, nil, 000000000000000

Phalanx, Partisans, and Riflemen are buildable, as all have defense values set > 3.

Test #2.

Archers,      nil, 0,  1.,0,  2a,3d,  1h,1f,  3,0,  1, nil, 000000000000000
Legion,       nil, 0,  1.,0,  4a,2d,  1h,1f,  4,0,  0, nil, 000000000000000
Pikemen,      nil, 0,  1.,0,  1a,2d,  1h,1f,  2,0,  0, nil, 000010000000000

Defense = 3 also works. Lower defense values are OK as long as unit role is set to something other than defense. In this case, they have been set to Attack.

Some other tests and observations: Musketeer obsolescence is actually Gunpowder obsolescence. By setting the Musketeer tech to nil, and not giving gunpowder, it's possible to build both Warriors and Musketeers.

Conversely, by setting musketeers to some other tech, and giving gunpowder, neither can be built. The stats against which weak units are made obsolete, however, are that of the Musketeer.

Other observations: Upping the unit speed does not circumvent this forced obsolescence.

In summary, the following AND conditions trigger obsolescence:
Player has Gunpowder tech
AI Role = 1 (Defense)
Defense < Musketeer

Note: Attack values and movement speeds are not considered.


------

and now, onto the Knight.

This one appears slot dependent, as I've taken all techs.

Horsemen,     nil, 0,  2.,0,  2a,1d,  1h,1f,  2,0,  1, nil, 000000000000000
Chariot,      PT,  0,  2.,0,  3a,1d,  1h,1f,  3,0,  0, nil, 000000000000000
Elephant,     MT,  0,  2.,0,  6a,1d,  1h,1f,  4,0,  0, nil, 000000000000000
Crusaders,    Ldr, 0,  2.,0,  3a,3d,  1h,1f,  4,0,  0, nil, 000000000000000
Knights,      Ldr, 0,  2.,0,  5a,3d,  1h,1f,  4,0,  0, nil, 000000000000000
Dragoons,     Tac, 0,  2.,0,  4a,3d,  1h,1f,  5,0,  0, nil, 000000000000000
Cavalry,      Mob, 0,  2.,0,  5a,1d,  1h,1f,  6,0,  0, nil, 000000000000000
Armor,        nil, 0,  3.,0,  2a,2d,  3h,1f,  8,0,  0, nil, 000000000000000
Catapult,     Met, 0,  2.,0,  2a,4d,  1h,1f,  4,0,  0, nil, 000000000000000

Horsemen= buildable since role is set to Defense. Note that they became obsolete when gunpowder was given since their defense is less than that of the Musketeer.
Chariot= not buildable, since both attack and defense < Knight
Elephant= buildable, since attack > Knight even though defense is less.
Crusaders, Dragoons, Catapult= buildable, since defense = Knight
Cavalry= not buildable, since defense < knight and attack is not better.
Armor= buildable, since speed is not equal to 2

So what we have here is a series of AND gates for a unit to be obsolete: They are:
Defense < Knight
Attack NOT > Knight
Speed = 2
AI Role = 0 (attack)

Now the question is, will the AI attack with units that have a role of Defense if the ADM stats are clearly for offense?

[:) Smiley]

Double Post

[N35t0r]

1)

What happens if you change the role for Musketeers / Knights?

2)

I don't think the AI will send units roled as defense to attack, but it will probably use them to attack units adjacent to their cities rather than defend and probably be massacred...

[jamiesanders]

Sorry I'm responding to an old post, but I'd like to say thank you for this information. It helped me a lot in having the right understanding about muskeeter and knight feature.

[asim595]

In that case, looks like it's time for some experimentation.

Yes, it is a big game.