"Si vis pacem, para bellum" scenario under construction

[Heresson]

They only managed to take a snap of Seleucid empire when it was in decline already. Carrhae I know, but it'd be more fun to play it than Parthia.

We could have Armenia as a compromise... It's in the middle, and it had Parthian dinasty longer than Iran I gues...

[Boco]

Some random thoughts (i.e. troll)

Just to get ideas flowing, here are some random thoughts.

• One historical theory has it that the Romans adapted their manipular legion tactics from the Samnites. IIRC, the Samnites defeated the Hoplite Romans for a generation or so before they were conquered.
  
• In fact, the Roman military record was mediocre at best during this period, but they were remarkable in their ability to rebound with yet another army.
  
• Seleukus obtained a decisive edge in elephants after he was soundly defeated in India by Chandra-whatzisname.
  
• Treachery was the name of the game among the successors for a few generations. Ideally, Macedonian phalangites and the like should be difficult to build (Geographic limitations?) but relatively easy to bribe (by other Hellenistics).
  
• IIRC, Parthia came into existence much later than your starting date. Techumseh used a trick in Red October to make an instant civ midway into the scen.
  
• My vote is for an Eastern civ that relied heavily on mounted troops, but lacked effective siege trains.
  
• My reasoning for making Greek city states Barbs was their frequent lack of cohesion

some minor detail and I'll get you the best Diadochoi scenario ever created!

[Heresson]

Techumseh used a trick in Red October to make an instant civ midway into the scen.

Explain it to me, please

[Boco]

I'll give Tech a chance before I butcher the explanation.

[techumseh]

OK. The problem was Poland. (Isn't it always, Heresson? ) How to create Poland, at the end of the first world war, where it had not existed previously?

First, I created a Polish settler on the N map edge in the Arctic Ocean, where no one could get to it and it could not move. No other Polish units and no Polish cities exist.

Second, at the time of the armistice, Polish combat units are placed by events adjacent to Polish cities under German control. A MakeAggression event has the Poles attack the Germans. A Negotiation event (talker/listener mask - ToT only) prevents the Poles from making peace with the Germans. This is to prevent the Polish AI from making peace before ALL of their target cities are liberated.

At the same time, a tech is given to the Central Powers civ which makes which all German and Austro-Hungarian units obsolete. Leonardo's Workshop (renamed SDP) in Berlin converts all of them to weak 'deserter' units.

The Poles attack and easily take the target cities. BTW, for this to work properly, the Poles should move ahead of the Germans in the turn sequence. The following turn, a Negotiator event (ToT only) allows the Germans and Poles to talk, and a peace treaty is signed between the two AI controlled civs. Voila, a nation is born!

[Heresson]

oh. I used something a bit different. I've made a Muslim city at the edge of the map that is changeterrained to the ground when the civ captures (thanks to events) proper cities after higra

[techumseh]

That works too.

[KASHANKA]

About Parthia.

Quote from the Wikipedia:

"Initially, a king named Arsaces (possibly of a nomad tribe named Parni, a name whose relation to the word Parthian is much debated, or according to Armenian sources of White Hun origins) made himself independent of Seleucid rule in remote areas of northern Iran ca 250 BCE,"

My Scenario will probably start in 280 BCE, so saying that there were no Parthians when the scenario starts is not correct. The Parni were a Dahae tribe, and the Dahae are well known to fight against, and later along the side of Alexander the Great.

If Parthia goes in, I'll make her a small kingdom in classical Parthia and Dahae lands, which will be allied with the Seleucid Empire. Then somewhere around 250 BCE I'll make them go to war against the Seleucides with an event.

[Gagliaudo]

about Parthia. 280 bC is a 'classical' starting-year, indeed (1:Pyrrhos' expedition in Italy, 2:year after battle of Kuropedion... and other facts, of course )

[Heresson]

Kashanka, if it was directed to me, I did not claim the thing You are opposing

[Gagliaudo]

@Heresson: I was forgetting... it would be nice to have - in this scen- any 'signs of life' about Ponthos (I like Mithridates wars' age, too). Maybe this will be possible by using wisely certain events, won't it?

[Exile]

I really enjoy ancient and medieval scenarios, so glad to see another in the works. Not sure if these comments will be any helpl to you or not, but the possibility exists, so here are some observations;

Both Bernd Brosing's IMPERIUM ROMANUM and the MEDITERA scenarios are good . . . but not great. I've tried both of them at various times and given up.

I was annoyed when, having ALREADY conquered most of Greece and Macedonia, the Epirote Warlord and his pachyderms appeared in my midst in southern Italy. Attempting to time "historical" events is tricky. Untimely appearances destroy verisimilitude.

I'd like to see a Roman scenario that is truly BIG. That is, made on a very large map. The two scens mentioned above have pretty big maps. Don't think I've ever seen a giga map of the mediterranean world.

In ancient and Medieval scenarios, barbarians are GOOD. They're just difficult to control. There are ways to do just that.

Movement is always tricky. A legion could march a long way in a single year.

I'd like to see a big map that included Britain, but not most of European Russia. An odd or novel map orientation isn't a bad thing.

and getting Gareth's units is a gift from the gods.

[KASHANKA]

The map I'm using is big, but not Giga. Its 115 on 86.

I belive you'll like the map Exile, as it includes Britan, but not Russia! The most northern border is the Oder river and parts of the Ukrainian steppes just north of Crimea. The Baltic sea is barely visible, as on this map there are just 4 fields of it. No Scandinavia at all. The NE is really nice, full trans Caspian plains and Bactria are there. Alexandria Eschate will surely make an appearance in my scenario.

As for timing of events... Its tricky, but I'll do my best. Since I'm going to leave the player a full freedom of choosing the direction of expansion I'll probably fix the "invasion events" on the actions of the civs in the game. For example my Phyrros would appear when the Romans destroy the first Free Greek unit... (Its just an example, as Phyrros is already on the map in 280 BCE).

I'll try to avoid "date-based" events when possible, but its all to be decided once the design process progresses.

Now I'm deciding what unit types will appear in the scenario. I'm sorry to say that there will probably be multiple event and unit files
I know that it sucks, but I belive that its choosing the lesser evil.

BTW
Does anybody here speak Greek? I want to give the Greek (and Hellenistic) cities and units real Greek names, but I'm not keen on Greek.

[Arthedain]

I'm not really an expert on this era Kashanka, so I won't be much of a help, but I'm really looking forward to this one.

[Boco]

Which civ do you favor as for the human player? This time period had many themes: wars of the successors, Punic wars (II and III, right?), rise of Rome (including Gaul), rise of Parthia. One approach is to use civ-specific event files.

If you haven't already, you can find a lot of info on the various DBA and DBM sites.

Luke Ueda-Sarson's Ancient Military History Site has a lot of Greek nomenclature. Appears to be pretty accurate.

DBA Online: Armies gives only generic names, but it does provide information about army compositions.

Anyone else have good ancient links?

As for map size, bigger is more tempting. Just remember the odds of completing a scenario seems inversely proportional to the map size. So I'd vote against giga, despite its allure.

Kashanka, you're right that the Parthian tribe existed early on, but they weren't on the level of the other civs until later. Don't get me wrong, I'd really like to see them as a civ. Just keep up your research so that you portray them with some accuracy.

[Religious proselytizing] To save Tech from having to say this: you have a lot more event space and more unit slots in ToT. Is ToT available/affordable in Poland? [/Religious proselytizing]