Caesar Sxn game - MGE Team Spoiler

[Scouse Gits]

IIRC this is a conquest game - so there is no need to found any colonies - unless of course they pop out of huts.

I would send the Frigate off with two Warriors and hope for the best - ideally it would be a Warrior & a Caravan - but I don't think we can afford that luxury. We need to move on this swiftly as once Musks are commonplace the utility of our Frigate as a city emptying monster becomes limited, hopefully it will rapidly become vet and then we can take down non-vet Musks fairly easily - an attractive variation on this theme is to send a Warrior & a Diplomat - if we can afford the extra 20 shields - find a nice juicy coastal city - empty it - capture with the Warrior and then immediately evacuate the Warrior - the bad guys recapture and restock - then we bribe the city (half-price - as we are the previous tenants) together with its hopefully robust defending units - then we can hold the place .... all this in an ideal world with a following wind of course.

Stu

[Scouse Gits]

Minor snag to the above - if we use my save we don't have Writing .... bah humbug!

[Grigor]

-Ummm - Stu, how do you suggest dealing with the English Chariot? I suppose one could surround it with warriors, and when it declares war then maybe 3 or 4 of them could kill it if it isn't fortified. Any better ideas?

Possibly set taxes higher for a few turns? The Mongols have had a good amount of time for the holy flowers and we need a van or two quickly.

I like the whack 'em now strategy.

[-Jrabbit]

If this is bloodlust, I would think either MPE or STWA would be the 2nd WoW.

[debeest]

There's a basic problem with the frigate war approach: a frigate's attack strength is 4, and a fortified musketeer's defense strength is 4.5. We wouldn't get far that way. If we're sure a civ has no guns, the frigate scouring will be highly effective, though.

As far as capturing, surrendering, and then bribing an AI city: if I understand correctly, you only get to bribe at half price if the city was ORIGINALLY yours. Is that wrong?

Stu, my own shield policy is more or less what you describe, although I will sometimes work a square with two food, one shield, and one trade rather than a forest square. And Grigor and I do have more gold than you, but nowhere near enough to account for your superior shield total. I wish I knew how to do that.

Here are the numbers I cited above, though hardly any "maths":

SG Grigor Debeest
cities 8 7 8
citizens 14 14 12
techs 9 8 7
food 83 90 90
gold 13 96 73
beakers 115 0 36
shields 213 94 84
excess food 20 18 19
net gold & sci 17 29 30
net shields 27 25 25
units 9 11 10
science cost (tech# * ?) 12 12 15

I agree with Jrabbit -- MPE or STWA should probably be our next Wonder. Moreover, if we're not going to build a ton of cities, we might even want to switch over from HG (I realize that not building a ton of cities might be sacrilegious for you, Stu).

We might be able to get the chariot to go home just by asking, since it's within our city limits. That would risk provoking war, though. Alternatively, we'd need a stronger attacking unit -- frigate, horse, whatever. If we don't have attackers and don't want to risk war, I think we should just hope it wanders off for awhile.

Yes, to whomp musketeers we need vet dragoons, or vet ironclads. Non-vet dragoons are barely stronger than fortified musketeers, and the cost of war that way is very high. That's why I think a policy of peaceful building may be necessary to catch up. Depends on who's got what techs, though -- and we'll want MP for that info.

[Scouse Gits]

Wow!! How did I get all those extra shields? I was not aware that I was doing anything particularly clever ...

Don't forget that at least one Dip has been killed - not that that makes a significant difference...

Stu

[Scouse Gits]

I don't know about sacrilege - I tend to play an ICSish game, but i feel that the Gardens takes away the threat of imminent revolt in all cities - particularly any newly captured cities -- my take on this game is that we will build perhaps another 4 - 6 cities on the home island and then acquire them from the opposition --- your analysis about Musks is of course correct, but it is unlikely that any AI city will have more than a single Musk - and more likely that it will have a Phalanx and an Archer - this seems from my experience to be the calssic AI build path.

[Scouse Gits]

Hope the above made some sense - Stu pissed again ...

[Grigor]

So it looks like we are homing in on diverse strategies again.

1) Stu builds his holy flowers and kicks AI butt with frigates.

2) Grigor builds HG and MPE and explores, possibly after Dips

3) Debeest bypasses HG and builds MPE and STWA.

4) J Rabbit turns whatever policy he wants to upside down.

[Grigor]

I want Ironclads!!!

(Grigor has joined the Git in the wine brigade)

[Scouse Gits]

Merry Christmas Team MGE!

Stu

[Scouse Gits]

Try the below for a shield analysis - much the same relative positions, but the absolute numbers make more sense to me:

[Grigor]

I have started play with Stu's 2000BC save, with the plan of letting the Mongols build HG and then capturing it.

[Grigor]

What an interesting and difficult game. Here is the log:

Spoiler:

SG(1) game accepted

Plan: Survive the English Chariot
2 wonders by 1000AD. Build MPE. Let Mongols build HG and then capture Karakorum. Prepare to capture Zimbabwe and LW (Guns?) Collect Vans for SoL
Conquring force: 2 Frigates, 1 Galleon, 4 vet ellies.

Tech path: Trade (next turn), HB, [trade for Literacy and Myst] Poly, Phil, Mono. Then trade for IW, Eng, Inv, research Phys, Steam Engine. Too Slow!

Wri=>Lit=>Phy [Inv] =>Steam - that's OK.

Trade=>[Rep} Bank {Inv] =>Demo &The Lady . That's OK too

Need HG in Caesarea for celebration? Exchew. Make 2 trade routes from Caesarea for advances after 1500.

I need HB and Poly for defence, unless Guns is stealable from Zulus. They will want writing.

8 Cities - goal: 16 by 1000AD. Build mostly settlers in the East.

2000 Surround English Chariot.
1950 Trade=HB (132). English: demand Trade - no - WAR. warrior kills Chariot! First problem solved, except for the Explorer.
1900* Frigate sets sail W.
1850 Lugdunum founded. Excellent 4-whale colony site found.
1800 Mongol Isle found
1750 Mongols: War. Frigate attacks warrior=>Vet
1700*
1650 HB=>Poly. Lutetia founded
1600 Samarkand found. Attack. Zulu Trireme appears.
1550 Samarkand emptied. Warrior captures Samarkand. (86g) Take Myst for Phil over IW. Frigate in port to recover.
1500* Zulu Trireme immolates on Warrior... Mongols: give Trade. CF. Peace, withdraw.
1450
1400 Horse finally kills English Explorer, ending the English Threat. Monglols to build HG nxt - here is the crux of my plan
1350 Karakorum builds HG. Byzantium founded
1300* Hut: Musketeers. Somebody has Guns... Frigate Healed
1250 Zimbabwe completes LW. Poly=>Writing
Mongols: War

1200 Caesarea builds MPE

Zulus: Mon, 6Cities 179g, Guns, Inv, IW, Maps, Mas, WC. Res Pots
Germans: Des, 2C, 78g res Wri
Egypt: rep, 1C, 279g. Feud, Lit, Maps, Mas, Math, Rep, WC, Wri.. res Seaf
Chinese: Rep, 4C, 360g Lit, Maps, Mas, Rep, Seaf, Wri res Myst
Englisg: Mon, 4C, 187g Maps, Seaf, Wheel res WC
Mongols: Mon, 7C, 531g IW, Maps, WC, Wheel res Mas
-Capture unnamed Mongol city (21g, Maps).
Vet Frigate takes out Musket in Ulundi (Guns)

Germans: Give lots of cheap tech, peace, Maps. Karakorum found.
Egypt: trade for Lit, Rep, Writing, peace, maps.
Chinese: give Trade. Peace, trade for Seaf, share maps.
Ulundi found. Vet Frigate takes out Musket. Ulundi captured (34g, Guns)
Zulus: give Nav, Rep for peace. they withdraw.

Brundisium founded.
1150 res Phil. Take out English Explorer. Frigate=>Vet.

1100*London found
1050 London conquered (wheel)
1000 Galleon for England sets sail. Hut: Elephant. Zip the save.
16Cities. HG still not captured. Many turns till Philosophy, but Mono and Physics should both be available. A caravan to a foreign potentat should pay well. The granary in London sould be sold for a musket in Ulundi. A Rich Position.

[Grigor]

...and the 1000BC save: