Civ2, FreeCiv and the GPL nitty-gritty

[Mercator]

Ahem, one thing I'd like to mention is that I think the GPL sucks.

AFAIK, it means that anyone can do anything released under that license as long as they (1) include a copyright notice, (2) include the GPL license, (3) release their stuff under the same license and (4) include the source code, if applicable.

That basically means that once you, say, created some new FreeCiv graphics you no longer have any control over them. Anyone making GPL software or graphics or so (not just FC) can use your graphics at will, without your further permission. They could even sell it for profit without you getting a dime.

Edit: This thread started off as a threadjack in the Freeciv and the average Civ2 Scenario designer... thread, in case you're wondering...

[Yog-Sothoth]

Originally posted by Mercator
Ahem, one thing I'd like to mention is that I think the GPL sucks.

AFAIK, it means that anyone can do anything released under that license as long as they (1) include a copyright notice, (2) include the GPL license, (3) release their stuff under the same license and (4) include the source code, if applicable.

That basically means that once you, say, created some new FreeCiv graphics you no longer have any control over them. Anyone making GPL software or graphics or so (not just FC) can use your graphics at will, without your further permission. They could even sell it for profit without you getting a dime.

What you see as a problem, is what is commonly seen as the strength of the GPL license. Contributing stuff under the GPL is like giving to the common good and it get's available for others to use under the restrictions of the GPL license. I think it's a good thing to share, and this is one of the most important and powerfull aspect of the open source community.

You still retain the copyright over any material you release under the GPL, and you are free to license the same work under another license, although you can't revoke the GPL licensed material. If you want total control over your work don't release it under the GPL.

Of course the nice thing to do is to give credit to the original author, this is not required under the GPL license.

To compare the BSD license is even less strict, people can use whatever you release under it without disclosing their modifications or giving anything back if they chose so.

[Mercator]

Originally posted by Yog-Sothoth
I think it's a good thing to share, and this is one of the most important and powerfull aspect of the open source community.

Well, I think sharing is great. But everything I've done and made (for civ2), I did for free. I don't want anybody else making a profit from my work, unless I explicitly allow them to.

If you want total control over your work don't release it under the GPL.

Well, obviously, but can non-GPL'ed work be released as part of GPL'ed work? Say, if I'd draw a set of units, could they be released together with FreeCiv, while using, say, this license:

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/

[Yog-Sothoth]

Originally posted by Mercator
Well, I think sharing is great. But everything I've done and made (for civ2), I did for free. I don't want anybody else making a profit from my work, unless I explicitly allow them to.

That's understandable, but as the GPL stands today this freedom also include trying to make a profit of it. If someone was to use some of your GPL material and sell a product containing it, they would also have to give "equivalent access" to the source code, which means they can't charge more for it. They are not required to provide a version for free, but anyone who has payed them and reiceived the product can redistribute it for free as pr the GPL license. Therefore in reality it doesn't make much sense to try to make everyone pay for it as it would be a lost cause to begin with.

What OSS businesses make money on is "added value" like training, installation and support, not the GPL product itself.

Originally posted by Mercator
Well, obviously, but can non-GPL'ed work be released as part of GPL'ed work? Say, if I'd draw a set of units, could they be released together with FreeCiv, while using, say, this license:
http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.0/

There are many licenses that are compatible with the GPL.

Edit: It seems crative commons isn't compatible because it req:
- Attribution. You must give the original author credit.
- Noncommercial. You may not use this work for commercial purposes.

So if you release art under this license it can't be bundled with Freeciv, but you can make it available as a separate download.

[Harry Tuttle]

You know, technically, every sort of unit graphics grid can be used in Freeciv. Also, technically, every sort of unit graphics grid doesn't have to be used in Freeciv...

[Mithrandir]

You don't have to relicense your work under the GPL if you merely want it to be able to use it under Freeciv. While IANAL, I believe that you could even distribute it around to other people, even if it is not licensed under the GPL. Note, however, that if you do that you cannot base your work off of any that is licensed under the GPL, and that your work could not be distributed with Freeciv.

As a note for scenario creators, I have some Perl programs on my website that convert Civilization 2 files to Freeciv format. The first, civIImap.pl, (not created by me) converts Civilization 2 maps to Freeciv maps. The second, civ22freeciv, converts a Civilization 2 rules.txt and cities.txt, etc., to Freeciv ruleset format. Both of them require Perl to run, and, due to changes between 1.14.2 and 2.0.0, may no longer completely work. I haven't tested them in a while.
Finally, there is civ2gfx, which lets you convert old Civilization 2 graphics to Freeciv. I don't know if that works, either.

[Harry Tuttle]

Originally posted by Yog-Sothoth
So if you release art under this license it can't be bundled with Freeciv, but you can make it available as a separate download.

Exactly.

[CapTVK]

Yog-Sothoth (and mithrandir) has given a very clear answer.

In essence it is that you cannot "release non-GPL'ed work as part of GPL'ed work" but you can release it apart from.


so while you cannot distribute (non-GPL compatible license) art within a Freeciv bundle you are totally free to distribute your own work outside it under any license you wish.

That also implies that it can never become part of the standard Freeciv package. The same way that Freeciv will never distribute the original Microprose Civ2 gfx and sfx. Those are copyrighted and it is illegal to distribute them.

[Mercator]

Ahem... Thanks all. Sorry for the threadjack, but I do think this is important for people to realise. So far, everything's worked out fine in our cozy little civ2 creation community, but once the community becomes broader than just civ2, it looks like people will need to think about licensing to make sure no-one's going to use their creations in a way they don't want them to be used.

I was mainly wondering if the people whose units are being used in the "Graphics for FreeCiv 2.0" thread are also aware of these details of the GPL. Or isn't that thread looking to have a tileset that's included with FC? And if not, Yog-Sothoth's comment there about the GPL is irrelevant, isn't it?

[Yog-Sothoth]

Originally posted by Mercator
Ahem... Thanks all. Sorry for the threadjack, but I do think this is important for people to realise. So far, everything's worked out fine in our cozy little civ2 creation community, but once the community becomes broader than just civ2, it looks like people will need to think about licensing to make sure no-one's going to use their creations in a way they don't want them to be used.

Which license have you guys been using for the content you have made so far then?

Originally posted by Mercator
I was mainly wondering if the people whose units are being used in the "Graphics for FreeCiv 2.0" thread are also aware of these details of the GPL. Or isn't that thread looking to have a tileset that's included with FC? And if not, Yog-Sothoth's comment there about the GPL is irrelevant, isn't it?

I was under the impression that CapTVK wanted to make something that could be included into Freeciv, and in that case it is very relevant.

[Mercator]

Originally posted by Yog-Sothoth
Which license have you guys been using for the content you have made so far then?

None. We just expect eachother to be courteous and credit eachother. That mainly manifests itself as graphical signatures in the graphics (which CapTVK removed) and credits in (scenario) readmes.

I was under the impression that CapTVK wanted to make something that could be included into Freeciv, and in that case it is very relevant.

Exactly. So they should be aware they're basically forfeiting their creations.

[Yog-Sothoth]

Originally posted by Mercator
None. We just expect eachother to be courteous and credit eachother. That mainly manifests itself as graphical signatures in the graphics (which CapTVK removed) and credits in (scenario) readmes.

There is no problem with giving credit with GPL material, it is usually done out of courtesy, but the license don't require it. I don't know anything about CapTVK removing them from anywhere.

Check here for the list of contributors to Freeciv (both code and media). As you can see it's very detailed, so credit is given where it's due.

Originally posted by Mercator
Exactly. So they should be aware they're basically forfeiting their creations.

I don't see it that way. By releasing something as GPL you ensure it will stay free. I would rather characterize not using a license at all as much closer to "forfeiting" your creations. How is not using a license gonna give any protection at all? (other than Copyright which apply automatically, and is not lost if you GPL just to clearify that).

[curtsibling]

I think Mercator has a damn good point.

Signing up to merely give away your ideas or work is crazy.

For instance:
The main reason I never sign up to any of the current web art galleries is because
I refuse to give over the permission for other people to just reproduce my
work and do what the heck they like with it.

Yes, and I know it is all bound in legal codes and contractual jargon.

I can read between the lines, however.

The contract-holders get all the advantage, while original creator gets sidelined.

I think not.

Sharing is great...
When it is sharing, and not highway robbery. (I don't mean Freeciv here!)

I think I for one, will pass up the Freeciv thing - No offence intended.
I like my CIV2 graphics creation as a hobby.

I will keep the legal stuff for my real-life freelance work.

[Harry Tuttle]

I propose a compromise. As was stated, artwork that can be used for Freeciv does not necessarily have to be GPL. What I aluded to before with this comment...

You know, technically, every sort of unit graphics grid can be used in Freeciv. Also, technically, every sort of unit graphics grid doesn't have to be used in Freeciv...

...is that any artwork we create, here, on this site, can be used in Freeciv, but not included with it, unlike the artwork that was included with the beta download.

So basically, we create what we want, not license it under GPL (unless we want to), and simply download the graphics seperately, just like we would any other units here on the forums.

And yes, I think Fairline should be informed if he doesn't realise the extent of what he's giving...

[Harry Tuttle]

For a further example I'm going to use the Civ2gfk program. This program is licensed under the GPL, but it can convert non-GPL licensed Civ2 graphics (unit.gif, terrain.gif) into PNG format.

The tileset that is included with the program ie "the file that tells the Freeciv executable to 'grab' certain blocks of pixels in a graphics file" is formatted in such a way that it will grab the pixels from any standard Civ2 graphics file and display it in game like it would be in the Civ2.

Now here's the difference between contributing to the Freeciv distributed package and just making Freeciv compatible graphics. The files that will be converted by Civ2gfk are not licensed under GPL. They can however be used in Freeciv. Easy as that. No legality issues at all to making graphics compatible with Freeciv.

If you don't want your work to be licensed under GPL then don't submit it for distribution. That's it. You can still create for Freeciv and all its extra graphic space and extra unit spaces, etc...