Diplomacy and Tributes

[La Fayette]

Ushhhh!
Don't repeat it: the Monk is trying to obtain the withdrawal of Russian troops.
(I wonder why )

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by La Fayette
Ushhhh!
Don't repeat it: the Monk is trying to obtain the withdrawal of Russian troops.
(I wonder why )

I wish!! Am I a dunce or is there no diplomacy available on the road to Moscow??

Monk still

[solo]

I get withdrawal AND gold fairly often, so this is another thing worth a few tests. Next time the situation comes up I suggest each of us make a save and do a few tests later after completing the games.

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by solo
I get withdrawal AND gold fairly often, so this is another thing worth a few tests. Next time the situation comes up I suggest each of us make a save and do a few tests later after completing the games.

Good idea!!

I may have had this happen too; I just don't recall it being very often.

Monk

[rah]

Zenon, I may play SP again under the right circumstances but I would have to reeducate myself. The Current SP players have a lot of this stuff down to a science. MP leads to more intuition and reaction, which are not desireable traits in SP. I'm now a bit sloppy but quick.

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by Bloody Monk

Am I a dunce or is there no diplomacy available on the road to Moscow??

Monk still

...a dunce? certainly not!
No diplomacy available AFAIK
(but I felt I had to make that joke =)

[La Fayette]

Originally posted by rah
Zenon, I may play SP again under the right circumstances but I would have to reeducate myself.

Come on, rah!
You have 3 weeks left for reeducation... and Zenon has found such a nice start for you (and the rest of us)

[solo]

Originally posted by rah
Zenon, I may play SP again under the right circumstances but I would have to reeducate myself. The Current SP players have a lot of this stuff down to a science. MP leads to more intuition and reaction, which are not desireable traits in SP. I'm now a bit sloppy but quick.

We are playing mostly conquest now in support of Peaster, who has undertaken writing a guide. These games only require broad experience, and not so much of the "science" used in the more micro-intensive EL games.

In EL games, I can easily spend an hour or more on many of the moves, but in EC, I completed the October tournament game in an afternoon's play. These contests are challenging and more importantly, fun. Why not join in and perhaps add a new idea or two to help augment Peaster's work in progress?

[rjmatsleepers]

Originally posted by solo
I get withdrawal AND gold fairly often, so this is another thing worth a few tests. Next time the situation comes up I suggest each of us make a save and do a few tests later after completing the games.

I have had both gold and withdrawal, but I'm not sure I would say "fairly often". Unfortunately my requests for tribute are fairly random, but my impression is that you get the withdrawal whenever there is no delaration of war. I'd assumed that tribute was being paid as frequently as it should be, but until Zenon's post I had no idea how frequently that was.

Monk's observation is interesting. I've never replayed a case where I got a declaration of war. I might try it next time. Presumably if asking the AI to leave is more likely to work than demanding tribute, you should ask them to leave first, then demand tribute on the next turn whenever there is a risk of a war that you don't want.

RJM at Sleeper's

[rah]

I may have to check it out.

But I love 2x1x so much. I might have to build on *gasp* grassland.

[rjmatsleepers]

Could you say a little more about how the 8 turn cycle works?

In my current game, during a period of cease-fire I got money tributes on 4 successive turns (and another time 3 money tributes followed by a technology). I presume the 8 turn cycle doesn't apply to cease-fires.

RJM at Sleeper's

[solo]

RJM,

I believe calling it a cycle is a misnomer. I think it's more like an initial waiting period, which only occurs once per civ. However, more exhaustive tests may prove that this supposition is incorrect.

[Zenon]

Originally posted by rah
But I love 2x1x so much. I might have to build on *gasp* grassland.

Rah, have a look at the starting position. No grassland, but lots of shields. This must be your game!

RJM, that´s right, the 8 turn period is triggered by a peace agreement. Under truce or once the period is over there seems to be no limitation and you can demand tribute repeatedly. It seems that having peace a second time after a war has the same effect, but I am not sure as it is also possible that the former war changes the outcome.

I have done a little test on how the AI home continent is determined. As I thought the AI gets a continent number when it is started or when it respawns. It doesn´t matter where the capital is founded.

Zenon

[geofelt]

Another rule: If the ai is hostile, you will not get tribute, sometimes you will be ignored, or sometimes war.
After peace is agreed, you can demand tribute to get units removed. I don't think the ai has ever declared war right away.
If the ai offers a cease fire right away without demands, you can usually reject it and get some gold. You will always get more gold if they have it if you reject the follow on peace offer.

[Ljube]

Originally posted by rah
What if the AI is spread across continents? Does it use the continent rating of the one where it's capital is?

Rah, I play LAN MP games with my friends which include the AI. Judging by my experience, if the AI spans across continents it will only pay tribute to you if all conditions listed below are met.

1. Your power rating on on that continent is greater than that of the AI as per Zenon's formula.
2. You have at least one city on that continent.
3. The AI has at least two cities on that continent thus considering it a home continent. One AI city will not suffice.

Common exploits of this mechanism in our games:

1. If you don't have an AI on your continent find one quickly and settle on his mainland immediately. Build as many units as you can, expand like crazy, bring more units from the mainland and the AI will start to pay. They are usually full if left alone for some time (1000+ gold).
2. If an AI has settled on your continent allow him to build another city so that harvesting can begin.


If your military power is much greater than that of the AI, the AI will pay tribute every turn.