ToT or MGE?

[curtsibling]

Good post, Catfish.

The destiny of community is in our hands - At the risk of sounding dramatic.

The graphics are what people want, and ToT gives us creators the chance to wow civ players.

I have a great soft spot for MGE - But I feel that ToT is the final graduation to real civ scenario potential.

Thanks to the game not exactly getting the coverage it deserved when it came out, it is always regarded as the civ outsider.

Like the strange uncle you have that doesn't get invited to parties.

We have tec's awesome OMG underway, and recently El Aurens too.
We need more scenarios.

Idea 1:
How about opening a scenario clinic where a classic civ2 scen is selected, and converted to ToT.
While creators here all take different duties to convert the graphics.

Imagine Nemo's 2194, Exile's 1870, or BeBro's Rome Imperium scen converted?

I think it would gain notice, seeing as we have Harry's news scoop group set up.

Idea2:

Why not merge the ToT thread with this one?
That way we can cover all bases?

Just some tuppence.

[Arthedain]

Idea 1:
How about opening a scenario clinic where a classic civ2 scen is selected, and converted to ToT.
While creators here all take different duties to convert the graphics.

Imagine Nemo's 2194, Exile's 1870, or BeBro's Rome Imperium scen converted?

That would surely convert many players to the dark side.. uhm.. I mean the ToT-side..

[Arthedain]

Originally posted by Catfish

Are you talking about the positions of the minimap and status bar? If so, use View menu -> Map Layout. It toggles between the top and RHS.

Thanks for that one Catfish!

Hmm, all this ToT-talk sure make me wanna play some..

[techumseh]

Originally posted by curtsibling


Idea 1:
How about opening a scenario clinic where a classic civ2 scen is selected, and converted to ToT.
While creators here all take different duties to convert the graphics.

Imagine Nemo's 2194, Exile's 1870, or BeBro's Rome Imperium scen converted?

I think it would gain notice, seeing as we have Harry's news scoop group set up.

I used to know how to convert scenarios and it was pretty quick. But I haven't done it for some time. Can you give us a step-by step, Catfish?

Then we need to find a place to put them.

Idea2:

Why not merge the ToT thread with this one?
That way we can cover all bases?

It is pretty dead, but it's where folks who stumble onto ToT online or in the remainders bin go to ask basic questions. A bit different purpose. Perhaps a sticky once we get something going?

[Mercator]

I have ToT, of course, and I don't have MGE, by the way.

I agree that we can probably do without the ToT forum, but it's not a creation forum per se, so I think it should just be removed and the threads moved to the most relevant forums.

[Exile]

For what it's worth . . . .

I have MGE. That is the engine that I use and that won't change.

Why?

I KNOW MGE. Yes, it's a hairy, cantankerous beast, but it is the beast I KNOW. I have learned its varied tricks and wayward ways, and I KNOW what to expect and what to avoid.

The purpose here, AFAIAC, is to create a GOOD simulation. "Good" means; Playable and fun, balanced with historical accuracy and period graphics. In pursuit of that goal, I use the monster with which I am familiar, and that I can herd in the direction I want it to go.

Yes, it might be fun to have a few more unit slots, a few more events, and some other elements that TOT addressed, but I am not going to go through another learning process (it took years! lol) with a game that is, unhappily like this one, going to go the way of the dodo sooner or later. If I had the perverse urge to move my efforts to another program, I'd sure choose one that was more up-to-date than either TOT or MGE. I'd find some other empire-builder that was more contemporary, in terms of power and ability.

Luckily for me, and possibly for others, I haven't found one yet. If and when a game comes along that DOES have the creative latitude of MGE/TOT/Civ2-in-general, I'm gone.

Increasingly, I get the distinct, sinking feeling that my favorite platform for creative game-making is slowly going obsolete. I'll hang on for as long as there are people playing and enjoying the scenarios I create, though. And it does surprise me how many people are still enthusiastic about scenarios. But we are a small group, folks, and many illustrious names have moved on to other programs.

That said, let me state quite clearly; I don't make these for anyone else. I create these scenarios for myself. Perhaps that's a selfish admission, but it's honest. If others like them, good. I'll continue to put the finished scenarios in places where others can retreive them and play them, but first and foremost, these things are a labour of love (or maybe just compulsion, lol) to satisfy no one but myself. So the issue of who may or may not be playing scenarios and which platform they use is, to me, irrelevant. As stated, there are converters out there. If one has the desire to use one, so be it. I don't.

[Mercator]

Re: For what it's worth . . . .

Originally posted by Exile
That said, let me state quite clearly; I don't make these for anyone else. I create these scenarios for myself.

That's the only way to do it.

[curtsibling]

I think Exile is right in that CIV2 is an elder game these days.
And that the amount of players should not be a factor in scenario making.

I am not going to throw in the towel.
Because like you guys, I love scenario tweaking.

But I doubt there is any program out there that can capture CIV's unique charm.

I got the game when it came out - And I am still addicted as I was when I played my first world map game in the glory days.

There is only one civ for me - Even that clunky arcade game they pinned Sid's name on will not suffice.

Many games these days have the looks, but not the spirit or vision.

As a games review guys once said:
"When CIV blew it's nose the first RTS game was on the hankerchief."

And while there is Windows and people playing, there will always be a Civ and community.

Have hope, gentlemen!

[Panda]

I must confess that since converting my mod-pack to TOT all my new games have been played using that. However my prefered format is still FW and that's the way I'll stay.

[Catfish]

Originally posted by Arthedain
Thanks for that one Catfish!

No problem. Note that you can do the same thing with the City screen using the City Layout toggle.

Originally posted by techumseh
I used to know how to convert scenarios and it was pretty quick. But I haven't done it for some time. Can you give us a step-by step, Catfish?

Angelo did write a readme file. I didn't have any trouble following it. Are there still problems? I recently outlined a few issues in this thread over at CFC. Remember, CivConverter never advanced beyond a beta version.

Originally posted by Exile
That said, let me state quite clearly; I don't make these for anyone else. I create these scenarios for myself.

I can't argue with that, either. It's the reason why I've stuck with ToT all this time when there was little support - and I know it's better. Also, bear in mind that I made the switch 4 years ago. As a whole, I thought the Civ2 creation community would be a lot more curious and adventurous. Not so.

[techumseh]

Here's what I can't recall: "3)Open a dosprompt". I have XP installed on my computer - no clue how to do this.

[Catfish]

Originally posted by techumseh
Here's what I can't recall: "3)Open a dosprompt". I have XP installed on my computer - no clue how to do this.

OK, three ways…

Assume I've extracted CivConverter into c:\unzipped\civconverter\ and the scenario into c:\unzipped\scenario\

Method 1:
a) Start Menu -> Programs -> Accessories -> Command Prompt
b) To change directory: cd c:\unzipped\civconverter
c) To convert: civconverter c:\unzipped\scenario\scenario.scn

Method 2:
a) Start Menu -> Run… (or Windows key + R)
b) To convert: c:\unzipped\civconverter\civconverter c:\unzipped\scenario\scenario.scn

Method 3:
a) Get Microsoft's PowerToys for Windows XP. It contains various unofficial enhancements for XP, one of which adds the Command Prompt to the menu when you right-click a directory (folder). The prompt will automatically start in that directory.
b) Right-click the c:\unzipped\civconverter folder.
c) Select Open Command Window Here.
d) To convert: civconverter c:\unzipped\scenario\scenario.scn

[curtsibling]

Bladdy heck - I just converted Dictator to ToT...
Blimming superb tutorial - Nice one, catfish!

Remind me to buy you a pint the next time I'm in Wollongong!

Yer an officer an and gentleman!

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by techumseh


I used to know how to convert scenarios and it was pretty quick. But I haven't done it for some time. Can you give us a step-by step, Catfish?

Then we need to find a place to put them.

Ive converted several in the past. Unfortunately ive deleted most, but i think i still have a few. If there was a convenient place to put them for general use, id be happy to send what ive got, and maybe even go back and convert a few more.

[GoPostal]

Is ToT an expansion pack, like FW, or a full game? Also, is it true it uses animations, because the lack thereof is what makes civ2 so editable.