A Playtest Too Far

[AGRICOLA]

I really didn't mean to stir things up, but thank you for all the helpful suggestions.

@techumseh
By getting used to the TOT controls I mean the different way of presenting info on what units are in a stack, which unit is next to move, etc. Please don't be concerned about about any problems that I mention. To me, playing a scen is like doing a puzzle: the harder, the better.

What I'm working on are things like seeing if aircraft are the best units for locating and destroying the invisible sappers as well as any other sneaky/despicable tactics that I can think of. This thread has much useful info on the obstacles and problems that have to be overcome in your scen. The invisible sappers seem to be a critical key to success.


@Fairline
The depressing black is indeed what you suggest. . . the city screen as well as the borders and the small windows on the game screen. I'm in the process of fixing that permanently for my TOT. I LIKE the nondescript grey of MGE. I know, there's no accounting for some people's taste buds.


@curtsibling
Dictator in Feb '44. N and S America learning German. Australia & New Zealand about to fly the swastika. Japanese beating their brains out on defences from Kathmandu to Manila. Barbarossa goes in July. Plan to conquer USSR in 6 turns, max. Fine scen!

[techumseh]

I've made a number of dialog and city backgrounds for various released and unreleased scenarios. Maybe I should put up a ToT skins section on my site?

[fairline]

[Boco]

Maybe I should put up a ToT skins section on my site?

That would help alleviate one of ToT's biggest problems!

Want any donations for the new addition?

[techumseh]

Sure, send 'em along. Thanks.

[AGRICOLA]

Here are a few things that I've come across while checking Market Garden.

The "BRI" in the "until" column for Engineers in RULES is a bit of a problem because it precludes using "CREATE UNIT" to test the performance of units. I realize that changing "BRI" to "nil" would allow a player to build the unit. However, if the cost of Engineers was raised to 200 or more, a player would have to be nuts to disband fighting units in order to build an Engineer during the course of the scen.

Also, you may want to remove "Can spot enemy subs . . . ." from the PEDIA description of Engineers.

The Bofors SP AA does not appear in the PEDIA display of unit types so that there is no information on its performance unless one reads RULES.

I'm a bit surprised that the initial air support for the airborne divisions does not extend much north of Veghel. Assuming that the Mitchells and Mosquitos are based in Britain, the distance to Eindhoven would not differ greatly from that to Arnhem. Did the Americans not insist on ground attack aircraft support for their paratroopers? I'm not suggesting more aircraft, just a bit more range.

On the same topic, as XXX Corps (hopefully) moves northward, should the spawn sites for replacement aircraft also move northward? As it stands, it takes a Spit or a Typhoon 3 turns to move from Lommel/Lille St Hilbert to Grave.

Is the terrain type "canteliever" a Dutch term or should it perhaps be "cantilever"?

[techumseh]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
Here are a few things that I've come across while checking Market Garden.

The "BRI" in the "until" column for Engineers in RULES is a bit of a problem because it precludes using "CREATE UNIT" to test the performance of units. I realize that changing "BRI" to "nil" would allow a player to build the unit. However, if the cost of Engineers was raised to 200 or more, a player would have to be nuts to disband fighting units in order to build an Engineer during the course of the scen.

Feel free to change it if you want to experiment. That's what I did.

Also, you may want to remove "Can spot enemy subs . . . ." from the PEDIA description of Engineers.

That's a leftover from when I experimented with minefield units which had the sub flag. It shouldn't affect gameplay.

The Bofors SP AA does not appear in the PEDIA display of unit types so that there is no information on its performance unless one reads RULES.

There are less spaces in the pedia than unit slots. Unfortunately, I put the Bofors near the end.

I'm a bit surprised that the initial air support for the airborne divisions does not extend much north of Veghel. Assuming that the Mitchells and Mosquitos are based in Britain, the distance to Eindhoven would not differ greatly from that to Arnhem. Did the Americans not insist on ground attack aircraft support for their paratroopers? I'm not suggesting more aircraft, just a bit more range.

On the same topic, as XXX Corps (hopefully) moves northward, should the spawn sites for replacement aircraft also move northward? As it stands, it takes a Spit or a Typhoon 3 turns to move from Lommel/Lille St Hilbert to Grave.

I made some judgements in the design and playtest phases which attempted to limit the effectiveness of the allied airforces in the hands of a resourceful human player. There were serious difficulties for the Allied air during the campaign, including weather, rebasing of the logistical "tail", conflicting priorities re: the strategic air offensive and escort of transports as well as Hitler's committment of Luftwaffe resources to stopping Market-Garden. For part of the campaign it was actually the Luftwaffe that was dominant, particularly in the northern portion of the map.

Do my choices reflect the hurdles faced in projecting Allied airpower during the campaign? I think so. Could I have done it some other way? Undoubtably.

Is the terrain type "canteliever" a Dutch term or should it perhaps be "cantilever"?

It's um, a Flemish engineering term, meaning "bridge that falls into the water".

Thanks for your comments, AGRICOLA. I'll make use of them if I do a version 2.0.

There is an error in the events files - yes, all 9 of them. In the locations for replacing flail and engineer units that are killed, the first coordinate is followed by a period rather than by a comma. The interesting result is that if one of these units is lost, it is replaced 6 turns later at the NORTH edge of the map rather than at the south. You can just fix them manually or I can post a set of new events files. Please let me know your preferences. Sorry.

[AGRICOLA]

I'm going to fix my EVENTS files as I imagine will most of those who read this thread. It's a lot easier than downloading again.

However, anybody who in the future downloads from your site, or any other site where Market Garden may be available for downloading, will surely appreciate getting a corrected copy.

[AGRICOLA]

@techumseh

Could you please clear your PM or, preferably, e-mail your e-mail address to me?

There appear to be a number of loopholes in Market Garden that you may want to fix.

[techumseh]

Originally posted by AGRICOLA
@techumseh

Could you please clear your PM

There appear to be a number of loopholes in Market Garden that you may want to fix.

[techumseh]

The clogged mailbox has been cleared. The loopholes will take a little more time. Thanks.

[McMonkey]

Didn't know where else to post so I posted here!

I have been down to Hastings (my hometown) to visit my pals and I took down a copy of ToT to add on to the MGE copy they have. I also took along a load of scenarios. My mate went straight for Operation Market Garden and spent the rest of the night capturing bridges.

I had not played it before and as soon as I god home a had a bash at Plan B. Thought I had nailed it and started to expand the bridgeheads, wasting valuable armour, only to be kicked out of Deelen just before the end

Serves me right for being so cocky!

Tech, just wanted to relay my appreciation for such a fine scenario. I am going back to try plan A and see if I can't do a little better. Look forward to your new project!

[techumseh]

I'm glad you enjoy it. Thanks.

[curtsibling]

Great to see people getting such a blast from this great scenario!

[McMonkey]

Managed to win, now I can carry on with my life

The Germans blew the canal bridge SW of Nijmegen which held up the Guards division. One of my engineers tasked to repair that bridge was wiped out in an air raid while the other one was miles away near Best.
My infantry managed to capture Arnhem on their own but taking Deelen needed the Guards armour. The game became a race against time to get the Nijmegen canal bridge repaired and the Guards up to Deelen.
I finally managed to capture Deelen late on 23rd and got enough armour in place to hold it...phew!

Thrilling stuff! Bring on Bismark