Romp -- an Early Conquest Succession Game

[Bloody Monk]

An expansion of BW over Map

Since we agree that MPE is a priority build...

My experience is that Map is almost always available thru trade. Likewise, Pottery, Mysticism, and Writing are usually available, making it easier to get HG and Philosophy, Monothesim. Letting the AI do some of our research for us is just as important--I think--as getting their maps.

By delaying war a bit longer, the AI will ususally have finished Math, Wheel, and Construction (along with their defaults, WC and Horse) very early on.

ALSO:

Remember that restarts are ON!!

Unless we make a convention about all-on-one-turn victory, this game will go on until a1500 (unless Giga map makes a difference) at the very least. I forsee a long, boring end game with zoo cities otherwise.

Makes me wonder if we don't need more handicaps to make this more challenging. Must get to and stay in Republic, or no Fundy, and especially, no city bribe.

Monk

[Traianvs]

Because I would totally waste your civ

[Scouse Gits]

Trajanus == why don't you join us?
BM -- Ta muchly

Stu

[Grigor]

Oops - too late at night. On a Mac I have to make the save name myself and then zip it, but that seems to have been too much for me. Thanks for the help BM.

My preference for Mapmaking instead of BW has to do with the likelihood of finding useful stuff from huts on other islands, especially given the high probability of nomads or advanced tribes. Often, enough units can be found to even conquer an AI city.

As regards Smash's Knight rush, the small number of cities is not a hindrance; the empire will expand rapidly as we swallow hapless AI civs. At least that's the way I have always tried it. IIRC LaFayette likes to build up the home civ first and start romping only at 1 ad.

I think the question is when we are likely to begin the invasion. I like starting as early as possible. MPE is often available around 1500bc, and I have even seen it as early as 1950bc. Chivalry can be researched to arrive around 1250bc almost all the time, and by 1000bc there is usually a reduced invasion force of non-vet knights ready to rumble. That's when I like to start. Because of travel time, an early start on exploration seems crucial. In the Us-vs-Them free-for-all, the rapid westward expansion paid dividends later in the game.

On the other hand, if we want to plan to conquer at exactly 1500AD, we can be peacable for a while. That at least raises the possibility that somebody will research industrialization and we will lose. And again, as SG(1) pointed out, Succession games have tended to last longer than many of us would take were we to play alone, so perhaps trying for the fastest conquering time will get us to a victory in 1750ad or so in the natural course of events.

[Traianvs]

What's wrong with building roads grigor?

Btw what a crappy small island

[Grigor]

Trajanus - good question. Here is a stab at an answer.

Roads: building a road in despotism takes 2 turns more than going to a spot and laying down a city. The road normally will not add to the beaker count because of the despotism penalties (there are exceptions, such as when there are no trade specials in the capital and a shielded grassland must be roaded to get trade). In addition, each turn with a settler in despotism takes away one food from the growth of the supporting city. The difference is often as much as the difference between Monarchy in 2650BC and Monarchy in 2050BC.

Even after Monarchy, the growth penalty and the delay in laying down cities is oppressive, but at some point it becomes appropriate to build roads because of the increased speed of getting to the new city location (actually this benefit is more illusory than real) and because the cities are large enough to absorb the growth penalty with less incremental cost. I can't get a handle on when that point should be, but in practical terms it is around 2000BC. Maybe even later (1500BC). Certainly by 1000BC there need to be some roads. Smash suggested waiting until the 6th city is down in Monarchy before using settlers for terrain improvements. That seems like a good rule in Deity.

[Traianvs]

Aight I didn't know that, but since you're on a small island such as this you can't build too many cities that quickly, and not every citiy has that much trade squares, so improving shielded grassland can give a slight boost. Atm you have more settlers than you'll need on that island anyway

[Grigor]

OK Trajanus, sounds good -- why don't you take the next turnset?

[Bloody Monk]

More settlers than needed already???

I beg to differ. There are 3-4 more sites at a minimum on the Home Island plus road work to facillitate getting some WOW's more quickly and cut down on corruption.

Monk

[-Jrabbit]

One Bunny's Opinion

(About that 2nd row...)

Against the AI, phalanxes are not really needed, especially early. Much better to choose Horseback Riding. The only change one needs to make in playing style is a pleasing one (to me) -- Attack outward (instead of defending).

Here's how I break it down:

PHALANX
Attacks as warrior.
Moves as warrior.
Defends as vet warrior.

HORSIE
Attacks x2.
Moves x2.
Can defend as phalanx (make vet).

The movement factor is HUGE in the early game.
--Can chase down kings (very important in BC years).
--Explore much more efficiently.

While a vet phalanx is an excellent defender, the fact that one must wait passively for an attack makes that relatively rare. Compare that to a vet horsie, which can be aggressively created on a much more consistent basis.

[Elephant]

A Phalanx defends at 2, not 1.5 like vet Warrior. When it gets Vet it goes to 3. Fortification and terrain bonuses multiply much quicker when the base defense is 2, not 1.

My biggest problem with early Barbs is separating the Leader from the Archer. I use a Phalanx fortified on defensive terrain to withstand the Archer, then chase down the leader. It helps to have a Horse or Chariot around from a hut, but I don't think it's worth researching Horseback just to make one myself. I'd much rather my off-tech be Bronze, which sets up Currency (for Marketplaces) and then Trade (for caravans and Marco Polo).

[-Jrabbit]

I stand corrected re Vet Warrior defense factor.

I stand by my assertion that you'll capture more kings with horses than you will with phalanxes. Remember, we're talking about the one off-path pre-Monarchy tech. (In general, that tech is "chosen" by a hut, not me.) Maybe I get bronze from huts often enough that I don't feel inconvenienced by the delay to trade when I take horsies...

[Old n Slow]

So I post a game (and go home for the weekend) and upon my return I see 20+ posts & a couple of turns played -- nothing like a new game to bring out the minds & thoughts.

BM -- I notice that sometimes when I play a few turns in MGE, then start a new game that the cities in the new game start somewhere after the first -- almost as if there was a continuance of the activity. Not too much of a big deal for me as I often rename my cities (to make more geographical sense.)

Sounds like the action I was hoping for is occuring...

[Bloody Monk]

AS Elephant said so well,

I'd much rather my off-tech be Bronze, which sets up Currency (for Marketplaces) and then Trade (for caravans and Marco Polo).

...something I should have explicitly stated, but, I thought this was ground so throughly plowed and decided that it would be assumed.

Perhaps this relates to the question I earlier asked (still unanswered) about game differences due to "Bloodlust." So, again, what does bloodlust mean??

Monk

[Bloody Monk]

Originally posted by Old n Slow

BM -- I notice that sometimes when I play a few turns in MGE, then start a new game that the cities in the new game start somewhere after the first -- almost as if there was a continuance of the activity. Not too much of a big deal for me as I often rename my cities (to make more geographical sense.)

I thought it was something like that, OnS. If someone wants to remember Wounded Knee, the city names are, as you say, easily changed. Personally, I would like to see more turnsets played. This early in the game it doesn't take long, so who's up??

Monk