Pacifist Challenge

[okosling]

When I am using ships for transport in the most efficient way I can (without any thought to the martial law aspect, if I already have enough warriors etc for that), they quite often end their turn in a city, for an efficient pick-up of something else which will be completed or arrive in the city next turn. To move a unit from land to a ship costs one move point and any unused move points are lost, but if a pick-up is inside a city, the unit can move off the ship somewhere else on the same turn. Of course, when a ship ends its turn in a city, there will be a martial law effect, whether I want it or not.

Are you saying, then, that it is not permitted for a ship to end its turn in a city because it will give a martial law effect, even though that may not have been the reason for the ship being there?

Also, I take it that nothing in a pacifist game prohibits running away, and a city may well be the best place for a ship to run to. That would also not be allowed?

[okosling]

How about an alternative pacifist set of rules:
- No attacking allowed in any circumstances
- No pillaging allowed
- Ceasefire/Peace offers must always be accepted
- No air units allowed
- No sea units allowed except triremes, caravels, galleons, transports
- No other military units with attack strength greater than defence strength, except horsemen for exploring before diplomats or explorers are available, and riflemen which are needed for defence
- Any forbidden military unit acquired from a hut has to be disbanded
- Military units not allowed to enter a known city radius of a foreign city
- Military units which inadvertently enter must withdraw asap
- Dips/spies not allowed to do anything which damages reputation
- Not allowed to build a city in a known city radius of a foreign city
- Not allowed to build STWA or barracks

This is stricter than the original proposal in some respects and less strict in others.

[duke o' york]

No, if you get horsemen from a hut, they too have to be disbanded. Explore with warriors if you really want to do this properly.

[Elephant]

okosling: The original proposal was "no military units whatsoever". The caveat we were debating was an exception for Tri&Car ships before Magnetism. Yours is stricter in other areas (Wonders, improvements, diplomacy) but loosens the original idea.

Duke: no Warriors either...

[Old n Slow]

Elephant -- check some of TimtheEnchanter's early comments in our D+3 games -- only Democracy collapses with cities in extended disorder.

Duke -- you're right -- suckering the AI to empty out their capital is truly iffy -- hence my thoughts that conquest would be difficult. I've seen the AI use Warriors as offensive units, but rarely have I seen them attack with Phalanxes, Pikemen, Muskets, rifles or Alpines.

We could use Explorers to enter empty cities (so we'd better make a bunch before they fade away.)

Best plan would be to set up barb farms -- have the barbs take out the enemy capitals, they buy, buy, buy.

[Bloody Monk]

Empty cities can be "taken" by settler/engineer by walking in. Getting the cities to empty will be the hard part.

Monk

[Elephant]

"Serious Pacifist" Rules Suggestion:

- Must transition from Despotism to Republic at earliest OEDO opportunity (ie first researched techs must be toward Republic, off-techs toward Trade); only other government permitted is Democracy (or Anarchy);
- No building of any military unit (defined as Attack strength > 0) or Barracks; any Barb or AI military unit bribed must be disbanded immediately, except those within friendly city radius which can be walked or sailed into city for disbanding;
- No building of SunTzuWarAcademy, KingRichCrusade, or ManhattanProject;
- No attacking of AI or Barb units;
- AI CeaseFire or Peace offers must be accepted;
- No research of "War Techs": AmphibWar, Chivalry, CombinedArms, Conscription, Feudalism, GuerillaWar, IronWork, Leadership, MobileWar, PolyTheism, Stealth, Tactics, WarCode (although these may be traded for or gained via Huts); also no research of the other 3 governments;
- No pillaging terrain improvements or blocking AI cities from working a tile;
- No planting nukes, poisoning water supply, sabotage (cities or units), stealing techs, or inciting city revolts (expelling AI dip/spy OK);
- No demanding tribute or "badgering" AI civs (demanding they remove a unit when no units are in city radii; blocking their internal RD/RR with camel/truck; leaving "sacrificial" camel/truck units near their cities to invite suprise attack, etc).
- Win by spaceship.

For greater difficulty, the start could be on a single large continent with all 7 civs.
For lesser difficulty, military units with Attack<=Defense could be permitted, except modern naval units. They would NEVER be allowed to attack anything, just defend. Martial law could be used in Despotism only.

[ERKERK]

These ideas all sound neat, but what I would personally find most interesting is something a little simpler, and subtly different: call it...

Bloodless Blood Lust

Rules:
Win by conquest.
Can build no units with attack >0, (including triremes and caravels!)
If any such units are tipped or bribed, they must be disbanded within 1 turn.
Sabotage is ok, but not poison or knicker-nukes (don't care about property, just people).
Bribing is ok, because no one gets hurt.
No other restrictions.

So strategy may seem to be similar to early landing, but the race is to get enough money to buy all the cities. And early trade may be rough before galleons. And happiness concerns would definitely suggest early Rep. Also, dealing with foreigh democracies may be...fun.

Eh... just a thought.

E

[debeest]

But you can't bribe capitals, right? How would you deal with that?

[debeest]

Originally posted by Old n Slow
Elephant -- check some of TimtheEnchanter's early comments in our D+3 games -- only Democracy collapses with cities in extended disorder.

I would swear that I have had republics collapse from a second turn of city disorder. Is that just faulty memory?

[debeest]

Originally posted by Old n Slow
Elephant -- check some of TimtheEnchanter's early comments in our D+3 games -- only Democracy collapses with cities in extended disorder.

I would swear that I have had republics collapse from a second turn of city disorder. Is that just faulty memory?

[Bloody Monk]

My recollection is that the Republic does not fall from having a city in disorder for multiple turns.

The city generates a riot alert along with the Mayor's disappearance turn after turn but the Senate does not collapse like it does if you break a treaty.

Monk

[Scouse Gits]

Not that Republic is my favourite form of government - but I have never had one collapse for any reason - can they?

Stu

[debeest]

Well, I guess you're right. I just checked the manual, FWIW, and it cites collapse under democracy but not under republic. Thanks for setting me straight. So, does that mean you can misbehave any way you want under republic without incurring any penalty other than poor reputation?

[Scouse Gits]

Well ... a qualified yes --- but the damned Senate tends to block all constructive moves ...

Stu