Us-Against-Them Free-for All

[-Jrabbit]

Love the discussion, but someone oughta PLAY!
I'm not eligible...

[Scouse Gits]

La Fayette, Old n Slow or a new face ...

Come & play some turns

Stu

[Elephant]

Originally posted by Scouse Gits
Gardens, Lighthouse, Magellan's & Mike's are my target WoWs - I rarely build Sun Tzu - prefer to rely on strategic barracks - the healing is valuable. Little can stand before a vet Crook (7.5) particularly after the Super Clads have decimated the defending forces... I guess the crux of my strategy is turning Science to zero once I've achieved Mono & Steam... Naturally all of this with a largely celebrating Monarchy.

Since no one is picking up the game, I'll continue the discussion...

I'm trying something like this in CFC's GOTM38. I did the Mon-Tra-Phi-MT rush, then diverted to Feu and Chi for SunTzu and Knights. Then I cranked down the Sci in favor of RushBuying Taxes. I put HG, LH, COL, MC and SunTzu in my SSC, then started mass producing Triremes, Knights and Dips. SunTzu means I can build the Knights anywhere, even a city I just bribed or took. Any Barracks I would have build would have been back on my home island, unable to heal wounded front-line troops unless I convoyed them back. HG and MC kept the cities content, even the new conquers (I added JSB later). I RushBuilt Settlers when they got too large, otherwise kept them cranking fighters or ships till they were down to 5 free shields each, then switched to Dips or Caravans.

I built Knights rather than Crusaders because of the better defense. I did not have to bring along Legions or RushBuild Phalanx/Pike to defend new conquered cities, or stacks of wounded Crusaders. Rarely did anything stand my Vet Knight onslaught - I think only two Legions have survived out of 50-60 attacks, and they were on bonus defense terrain. I probably should not have waited for the Knights, but I was building Wonders at the time anyway and really wanted SunTzu.

Magellans and Ironclads are much further down the tech path, and you have to go through Nav and Inv to get there. Part of my funding plan was to deliver caravans to keep up the bribery treasury, so I was leery of those techs. I did end up taking Nav later in the game, but Magellans was too late to really help the ships.

[Scouse Gits]

I did the Mon-Tra-Phi-MT rush

can't believe you mean Machine Tools!???

So it's Monarchy - Trade - Philosophy -

Once Steam comes in you have no need for cash except to churn out the Clads - the Crooks have already cleared the home continent and are now waiting to be shipped overseas - I have rarely felt the lack of defence of Crooks - 50 or so of them stomping across a continent don't brook no interference

Stu

[Elephant]

MT= MonoTheism; Machine Tools=Too (from RULES.TXT)

I'm usually well off the home continent by either Trade or Philosophy. I send out "scouts" (ships&dips), but delayed building the Main Force till SunTzu blessed them with Vet status.

I guess I'm just a novice at executing the mass continent attack. I'm getting a fair amount of counter-attacks, which Vet Knights are for the most part withstanding. Need to work on making sure I have enough force to finish things I start...

Any suggestions on doing this in a Republic?

[Elephant]

On a different bent, the "Free For All" system breaks down if there are not more than 6-8 players, due to the "Last Four Out" rule. What if you modified it so that after 1 day, it becomes "Last Three Out", after 2 days "Last Two Out"?

This particular game may be daunting some potential players due to its map size. Consider a Medium or Small for the next FFA game.

[debeest]

I second Elephant's suggestions. In the first free-for-all we eased the restriction and I thought it worked well. And I agree about the map size. Each turn often takes longer on a big map, and certainly it takes longer to hunt down all those distant civs. I could probably join in a bit more if the maps were smaller.

[debeest]

I'd like to take a turnset this weekend, but if someone else wants to go first and can finish by Saturday afternoon, jump in.

[debeest]

Okay, I'm on it.

[debeest]

Us Against Them Free-for-All, 600 - 780 AD

There’s a new Pro Vice Chancellor in town!

Let’s see: republic, 21 cities, 26 techs, researching engineering. Even more of a ribbon world than the Dirty Game! Thus far, we’ve found only the Babylonians -- I guess we’ve had no difficulty maintaining our spotless rep. Supreme, already built most of the important early Wonders. Looks as if the Pro Vice Chancellors of olde have this world well in hand, even if they did miss out on MPE – oh, right, that’s all part of the plan….

I experiment with the trade allocations, currently at 10-80-10. The 10% devoted to luxuries, which is entirely wasted outside Carthage, is roughly balanced by the effect in Carthage alone. Not a lot of cities would gain by WLT(PVC)D, so I keep it at 10%, even though it feels wrong. Pro Vice Chancellor Stuart has left the republic very much the way I would hope to leave it to my successor, with practically nothing to change.

600 AD -- By my calculations, the gems caravan from Cartenna to Rusicade would only get us about 60g, so I turn it around to feed into a Wonder.
Boat turns around to pick up a captain from Caralis.
Settler finishes planting mulberry bushes for silkworms near Cartenna and begins irrigating near Carthage.
There are dramatically fewer active units in this game than I am used to. Not much to do. Turns will go fast for awhile. We’re in the medieval plodding phase of the game.

620 AD -- No news.

640 AD -- We learn engineering. We’re given a choice between banking, invention, sanitation, theory of gravity, or warrior code. I ponder gravity for Isaac, but that’s a dead end tech for now, and we have little cash and few caravans for Wonder-building, so I opt for invention, which leads to guns and steamboats and Leo’s.
Feh. A caravan organizes in Leptis Parva with no boat to take it anywhere useful.
I find some land far to the west.
Um. Carthage is size 12 already. Suddenly I wonder if I should have studied sanitation. Well, until we finish the harbor, the city is going hungry, so I guess there’ll be time.

660 AD -- Village at 398, 224 (south of Western Station) yields three barb horsemen. Sigh. So much for the value of having gone back to pick up a captain.

680 AD -- Barb horsemen kill warrior.
Carthage finishes harbor, sets to work on university.

700 AD -- Population reaches 3 million.
Belatedly, I realize what I think we need here. We’re in republic, but we’re not celbrating. We need more cities! More blackfaces! Easier WLT(PVC)D celebrations! Let’s see if we can do something about that.
Also, we’re forging ahead in science faster than we can use it. With the SSC, we get much more production with a high science setting than with a high tax setting, but what we really need right now is cash. Have to consider resetting the sliders.
Trireme, healed in Treveste, loads up a captain and goes exploring to the south.

720 AD -- Learn invention (need 1040 for next tech). Out of banking, chemistry and physics, I choose physics.
Village at 469,9 (north of Babylonian Ellipi) yields 100g.

740 AD -- Rushbuy university in Carthage.
Now that some amenities have been built, I shift the sliders to 20/20/60. 10 of 21 cities will celebrate and grow.

760 AD -- Village at 325,19 (far western island) yields 50g

780 AD Village at 481,11 northeast of Ellipi yields 50g.

Frustratingly, I leave the republic largely as I found it. 7 of 21 cities are celebrating and growing -- my worthy successor will probably want to change the 20/20/60 settings after the next building period, or maybe even this turn. No new cities, two new techs. Modest exploration, disappointing villages. We have too few caravans, too few settlers, too few boats, and too few exploring units, and we need lots of improvements in order to take advantage of republic growth. We seem to be way out in front of the AI, but stuck in the doldrums. I don’t know that I could have done things a whole lot better -- I feel as if I didn’t really have many choices to make. Hopefully the little population growth spurt will help kickstart things.

The caravan west of Caralis was headed toward Carthage to build Wonders, but I think it can generate about 116g in Cartenna if silver is still demanded at that point.

Best of luck to the incoming headmaster.

[Scouse Gits]

Despair not, debeest - this is a delicate time for our fledgling Republic - sounds as if you did good.

Stu

[Bloody Monk]

Good turns, debeest, though I think Sanitation would have been my choice. Time will tell if other Civs could get Leo.

Why not use this relatively expensive time of celebrating Republic to churn out some settlers?? After they do some irrigation locally, the city can grow back that pop point, maybe more.

Also, did you check what the effect this WL_D growth will have on attitude levels when the slider is backed off. For example, maybe a Market would be better in Cartenna than the Aquaduct it is building, or even a settler. For, without the SSC being able to celebrate, Lux settings are a drain.

BTW, that's two more hints for your question about "how" in the "fun game." Sequencing is a big consideration I think.

Loved your log. "Planting mulberry trees", getting a captain for a ship; very nice touches.

Monk

[Grigor]

Great to see the game forging ahead, debeest. It is certainly interesting to see otherwise accomplished civ warriors struggling with early republic.

But there are some questions from the star chamber at the Institute (and by the way, where is the Institute?)

640 AD -- We learn engineering. We’re given a choice between banking, invention, sanitation, theory of gravity, or warrior code. I ponder gravity for Isaac, but that’s a dead end tech for now, and we have little cash and few caravans for Wonder-building, so I opt for invention, which leads to guns and steamboats and Leo’s.

Invention????
A plan mentioned above : Sanitation, Sewer, Shakespeare, grow Carthage. That was definitely possible in your turnset. You built a University in Carthage, which could have been a sewer. There are also IIRC 4 or 5 caravans in Carthage now, and with judicious partial rushbuying there is no reason to assume that the sixth 'van could not have been rushed at least in time for your successor's institutional growth spurt. This would not be cause for toothbrush detail if there had not already been mention of this strategy in the threads.

Although this is probably your predecessor's decision, I am surprised to see the Eastern trireme still sporting its caravan captain with the Babylonians still unexplored. We cannot find AI city demand for big trade bonuses without finding their cities. And without MPE or embassies or peace treaties, maps are going to be hard to come by. The information gained by a wandering caravan should be valuable, even if the Babs eventually whack it before it can deliver itself.

[Scouse Gits]

Yup - I tried to explore Babylonian hinterland with the 'van - but was blocked on every road by Bab units. Thinking there was always next time - I took the cash from Ellipi - and then lost my way home down that looong estuary. Had I found the sleeping Trireme earlier - 'next time' might have been on my watch - but it was not to be.
Hindsight is always 20-20, but I, too, would have plumped for Sanitation. I am predisposed towards celebration - more wine when the people are happy

Stu

[Bloody Monk]

Feeling somewhat clear tonight, I will play the next ten, if that's okay.

Monk