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Why bribe? Just defend like a diplomat!

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  • Why bribe? Just defend like a diplomat!

    In the most recent OCC #4 game, a barb frigate snuggled up next to my city in 1420 AD. At that time, it was only manned by a diplomat and I was lacking enough time or gold to welcome the invaders with a better defense, or so I thought.

    Attached is what I thought was going to be the final save made in the game. I almost didn’t even bother to hit enter for the next turn, but when I finally did I was very much surprised to see my diplomat not even break a sweat, while defeating 3 barb crusaders in a very convincing fashion.

    This game was being played with Civ II MGE, so I’m afraid that 2.42 users will not be able to load the save and see for themselves. In fact, diplomats may not be able to defend as well in 2.42, or in other situations.

    This was not the first attack on my city, which had been hit early on by a barb horseman, when it was defended successfully with an archer and warrior.

    This particular diplomat had bribed two barb crusaders who had landed near my city on an earlier turn during that game, so it did have a “history” of success vs. barbs.

    The fact that it was my only city, or that it was my capital, may also factor into why this diplomat defended so well.

    I know we all have experienced how poorly barb diplomats defend. If they can be reached, they almost always die when attacked, which is why I have never tried to defend a city with just a diplomat before, but in this situation I had no choice and ended up completely surprised by the outcome.

    What is the experience of other players?

    Could it be that the best defender for a city is just a single diplomat?

    I have seen other weirdness at times when using diplomats, like the time when one opened a hut. A team of barbs appeared around the diplomat and they just ran away! However, this was an exception to what generally happens when tipping barbs from huts using diplomats.
    Attached Files

  • #2
    Mercy! I would be afraid to try this.
    Everything changes, but nothing is truly lost.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey Solo, Happy Holidays!!

      I could be badly misremembering this but I believe you are immune from losing your ONE city to barbs if any unit is there to defend. A dip would not fare so well against the AI of course.

      It didn't seem to matter if the dip was unfortified either. And the dip became a vet every time. Remove the dip and the city falls.

      Monk
      so long and thanks for all the fish

      Comment


      • #4
        Well, now I've seen everything. I know something about Civ2 that solo doesn't. Who woulda thunk it??

        If you have one city only, any single defender in it is invulnerable to barbarian attack. I have heard reports of barbarian Cavalry being defeated repeatedly by a defending Caravan.

        I'm not sure, but I suspect that if you have 2 units in the city, only the last remaining defender is invulnerable to barbs. And the invulnerability does NOT, of course, extend to AI attacks...
        "I'm a guy - I take everything seriously except other people's emotions"

        "Never play cards with any man named 'Doc'. Never eat at any place called 'Mom's'. And never, ever...sleep with anyone whose troubles are worse than your own." - Nelson Algren
        "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." - Joseph Stalin (attr.)

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        • #5
          What he said

          although I believe the invulnerability disregards number of 'defenders'

          Stu
          "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
          "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

          Comment


          • #6
            What Stu said as well.

            If I'm desperate for shields in an OCC, then I'll quite happily disband any units in the city that are not required for happiness. In the representative governments, I'll go with just camels to defend my city, in the belief that my diplomacy ought to be able to sort out any potential threats before they arrive (give them what they ask for ). Obviously once the ship goes up, then I'll be rushing stealths and mechs like nobody's business, but until then war is not the OCCer's friend - no matter what benefits you might get from your allies.

            Comment


            • #7
              The one city thing sounds right and rings a bell, now that you all have reminded me!

              I think I will test this a little further in future games, just to see what happens. It may be that one's capital gets special defense, even if there is more than one city.

              Happy holidays to all, and good to see Monk again as an active participant.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by solo
                The one city thing sounds right and rings a bell, now that you all have reminded me!

                I think I will test this a little further in future games, just to see what happens. It may be that one's capital gets special defense, even if there is more than one city.

                Happy holidays to all, and good to see Monk again as an active participant.
                I think you'll find that after the second city, this special immunity is gone.

                I have an assistant who reads the posts and types for me so my participation is limited to meddling for now. Hope to be able to play again someday. Amazing how meaningful to me this community has become.

                Monk
                so long and thanks for all the fish

                Comment


                • #9
                  A round of applause for Monk's assistant then!

                  Thanks for giving Monk the chance to stay here, and devoting so much of your time to something you might regard (but would never admit here) as a bit sad.

                  Monk is right, barb immunity only last while you have one city. I am not sure, though, whether you can regain your immunity if you get a second city and lose it again. Would the immunity be transferrable if your capital fell? Will I remember to bother testing these thigns when I get home tonight? Er, no.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    One of our CfC posters (?Elephant?) suggested some time ago that there was a residual bonus while two cities were held and indeed that the 2nd city enjoyed a small bonus - but I don't recall this being verified...
                    "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                    "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by duke o' york
                      A round of applause for Monk's assistant then!

                      Thanks for giving Monk the chance to stay here, and devoting so much of your time to something you might regard (but would never admit here) as a bit sad.
                      I think I will not read this one to my client, duke.

                      FYI: the Monk is pretty much blind now and, although it won't happen tomorrow, he is dying. He mentioned this in previous posts. And for what it's worth, his upbeat enthusiasm makes this part of what I do for him not the least bit sad.

                      Thanks for the applause but please hold the sarcasm.
                      so long and thanks for all the fish

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I am not the source of the 2nd city bonus rumor, but I can verify from repeated experience (and a few deep nail indents in my keyboard tray) the invulnerability of one-and-only city to Barb assault. I had an OCC city on a small, unoccupied island a while back which suffered one of those Barb "uprisings" where something like 30-40 units, mostly Rifle, Calvary and Artillery, came boiling out of the forests. I did not have Flight yet so could not bomb/strafe them into oblivion, and the gold ran out after the first couple of bribes. Needless to say, my meager defensive units (and Dips) went down like fleas (they were mostly pre-gunpowder anyway), but the last one held out for something like a dozen attacks until I "killed" the spawning spot (it was coastal) with a hastily-recalled Frigate.

                        Monk's assistant: Pardon our self-depredating humor. We are deeply grateful to you for helping bring our friend back into our "world". Please convey our respect to him for the effort he makes to continue being part of this rowdy forum. We continue to enjoy his postings.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          blows dust from Tome of Ancient Civ Wisdom
                          Apparently this is a long lost nugget of wisdom! The conditions for invincible diplomat are:

                          1) he is the lone defender in
                          2) your lone city, and
                          3) you've never had any other cities, and
                          4) he is attacked by barbarians.

                          The AI will draw and quarter him, as will barbarians if any of the above does not apply.
                          The first President of the first Apolyton Democracy Game (CivII, that is)

                          The gift of speech is given to many,
                          intelligence to few.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            fao - Assistant to Bloody Monk

                            May I take this opportunity to thank you for enabling our good friend Monk to continue his participation in this community. I had picked up the dark allusions in earlier posts, but had hoped that I had misunderstood.
                            I am often struck by the resemblance this community has to a religious order - all men of a certain age, sharing a common devotion (nay obsession).
                            Keep our Brother safe - and keep us informed of any changes, please ...


                            ... and now something you can read out ...

                            Are we sure that it is only the final defender that is invulnerable? I feel certain that I have held my one city whilst guarded by a number of caravans?

                            Stu
                            "Our words are backed by empty wine bottles! - SG(2)
                            "One of our Scouse Gits is missing." - -Jrabbit

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Stu,

                              You are correct about camels. In fact ANY unit will save the day with only one city. Settler, explorer, warrior ( -v- 2 or 3 Crooks, very impressive), even Cr Msl ( which, like dip has defense = zero) will work.

                              Anyone can test this for themselves using the diplo.sav. Disband the dip, cheat-create unit for any of these other units.

                              My assistant says to say thank you. Thank you!!

                              Monk
                              so long and thanks for all the fish

                              Comment

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