[PBEM] Europe Classic 4

[GeoModder]

You mean Skype?

[g_storrow]

I forgot skype has a chat interface as well as the speaking one? Will that be the case do you think. does it have a blue icon though?

[GeoModder]

It has a chat interface as well, yes.

This is how the logo looks:

[sabrewolf]

0800bc to geomodder

yay! i killed a barb village and received a whopping 9 (!!!) gold! i'm rich

[GeoModder]

Okay, with a slight delay but still before the evening rush the turn is forwarded.

[Dauphin]

Sent on wards

[sabrewolf]

24 hours? wow, long time for this game

anyhow, got it, played it, sent it

760bc to geomodder

[GeoModder]

Right, here we go (again). And remember people, it's weekend!

[Dauphin]

Turn to storrow.

[Dauphin]

I was under the impression the Sabre was buying Maths from gstorrow, and that GeoModder had researched the tech himself.

Normally there is an implicit rule to say that you can't trade it unless you researched it, or at least can't trade for e.g 20 turns. Sometimes you can agree explicit terms though. I did discuss in an earlier e-mail with GeoModder that any trades I made with him :

No trading ban is good for me (I assume you mean the techs we respectively
received, not the ones we researched ourselves) . We may as well say not to
tech the traded techs at all - by the time any limit we set is up the others
will have probably researched them themselves.

[sabrewolf]

ok, i guess we should speak here about trade agreements and no-further trading:

pros:
- it's "fair". you won't get shafted as easily as otherwise
- it's standard in civ game PBEMs

cons:
- you cannot out-pace another player without backstabbing.


probably there are more reasons for and against the point, but these are the most important.

i'd like to make it very clear that i am NOT willing to ever play against people who do not honour this agreement. in the end it comes down to honesty. if you cannot win without trade expoiting, you don't deserve to win.

i have no problem losing a fair fight. of course it's not nice to look down the barrel of two players ganging up on you, but at least you won't have wasted 15 turns of research just to have someone else profit of someone else's trade.

i believe we have following options:
A) repeat the turn and geomodder doesn't misuse gstorrow's tech.
B) you three figure out how you want to compensate like if there wasn't this trade (eg. gift him a decent tech).
C) play further as if nothing happened but never do it again.
D) play further and continue on like this.
E) some other solution?

i think A would be the fairest and easiest.
if we go for D, i'll have to rethink if i want to play with this group. i have really been enjoying this game so far, but i do not condone with this style of play...

and sorry for being so annoying

[GeoModder]

No "dirty play" intended here. Firstly, I didn't know there was a trade in the make between g_storrow and Dauphin. Since there was already a second turn between the time Sabre and storrow traded Math, and he and I, I assumed it didn't went through. Also, I asked Dauphin the turn in advance if he was willing to trade Math from me, so I gave enough diplomatic warning.
Also, Sabre, if I wanted to play dirty, I could have trade CoL earlier on. I respected the trade limit you put on me, and I respected the trade limit between me and Dauphin (which was open trade). Since Storrow didn't bring anything up in regard to a "no further trading for a certain amount of turns" I assumed the deals were between players among themself, not over the whole game.

Since this seems a problem, I vote for turn replay and I don't offer Math to Dauphin.

[GeoModder]

And here is the replay already.
Better to have it sorted out with a bang early on then a fogged game later on, I would say.
(turn will be mailed as well)

[GeoModder]

Something else, perhaps regarding bugs.
I could track the deal between g_storrow and Sabrewolf the turn before already in the F4 screen, and there was this quote with Math under Sabre that he "cannot trade Math". So this looked like a ingame protection against trading techs the turn you receive it. But when the trade between me and g_storrow was done, at this same turn I could offer it already on.

[sabrewolf]

first of all, sorry if it sounded like i was accusing geomodder of dirty play. i meant it as a provocative start into my email. the rest however was meant.

next, g_storrow: i did warn you quite a long time ago that your very short emails could cause you trouble with diplomacy. by just sending geomodder the offer accepted (for a tech of his that's worth more than you offered) does in no way enforce him no to trade further.