Game II - pitboss, entry open

[St Jon]

I have not logged in so I do not know what the consequences were but it was last move/first move combo. War cannot have been in doubt as an axe stack had appeared next to his city - without Open Borders. If DM's are banned, as they should be, then this must require either a re-load or carte blanche for any to repeat the move.

[2metraninja]

I can propose you to log in and say if you will need a enforced ruling (i.e. reload) from the host or the game can continue with turn order stated from now on.

Lets solve this quick and the game to proceed.

[EvaldsUrtans]

If you did not suffer too much, I will inform Janis & if he do it again, I will relaod turn

[St Jon]

OK, He did not hurt much but he has then logged in again after my move this same turn! I realise it was for only a few minutes but the rules must be set here. I now do not know when I can make a legitimate move as Janis has seen where my troops now are and can act on that information if he moves first.

I am sorry to be a pain on this but if there are rules then they need to be enforced:-

1. He committed a double-move.
2. I had a choice of 3 attack options and before he takes his turn has already had the chance to act on the 1 I took.

I request either a re-load or a change of turn-order so that we can have a proper war.

[EvaldsUrtans]

Ok, I will reset turn before double-move

[2metraninja]

Well, this is embarrassing. 4 turns to repeat exact is a lot. Are we all sure that Janis is well aware of the rules for double-move in war time so this not to happen again?

When I first started to play pitbosses, I already had big experience with multiplayer, but it was only simultaneous online playing and I had some issues before the reason for not moving twice before the opponent was explained to me.

I would like Janis to agree here with St Jon on turn order and to state that he will follow the double-move rule from now on.

[Rakird]

wow, 4 turns because of a Dturn? thats way too much, ive lost some resources found by tech discoveries, ive lost 1 town etc...

pls put it back where it was, and explain ppl that they can´t do dturns, or it will happen again.

4 turns is way to much for me...

[PMBMaker]

Hello all,

If we have a DTurn situation, its an issue to address between 2 players.
Have those two players and the host decide what's the best aproach.
BUT... That approach must not be a worst situation than the dturn itself.

I find a few things unacceptable, and i'll explain them..

First, to take a decision like this without have one single post from one of the parts involved.
Even if St Jons description of the "incident" is 100% correct, there is the obvious need to know Janis opinion, if this was done, a post stating that should have been done either by Janis or by the game admin.

Second, can you imagine the diference in game that 4 turns do?
Resources, player relation, wars ongoing, trades, etc?
To take a decision that has this huge impact on the game without an aproval of a large part of the players and simply because of a Dturn its just, and i'm sorry to say, bad admin of the game.

Third, in this game the admin is an interested part of the game, if we take a deeper look in Civstats, here's what we have for the turn we rolled back to:

11/9/10 10:29 am Evalds Score decreased to 205
11/9/10 8:42 am Evalds Logged out
11/9/10 8:42 am Evalds Finished turn
11/9/10 8:37 am Evalds Score decreased to 222
11/9/10 8:33 am Evalds Logged in
11/9/10 5:08 am Evalds Score increased to 227
11/9/10 5:08 am A new turn has begun. It is now 400 BC


11/9/10 5:55 pm paraGraf Logged out
11/9/10 5:38 pm paraGraf Logged in
11/9/10 10:53 am paraGraf Logged out
11/9/10 10:46 am paraGraf Finished turn
11/9/10 10:29 am paraGraf Score decreased to 218
11/9/10 10:29 am paraGraf Score increased to 222
11/9/10 10:24 am paraGraf Logged in
11/9/10 5:08 am paraGraf Score increased to 218
11/9/10 5:08 am A new turn has begun. It is now 400 BC


So, something happened that turn at 10:29am between paraGraf and Evalds, eventually a city capture that was razed by paraGraf right after or something else.
This can be all dreaming on my part and I dont know paraGraf's view on this issue but i really wouldn't like to know that this was exactly what happened.

I'm not saying that the rollback will influence that battle (that i may be dreaming about) but what i'm sure is that this 4 turns players did, wont be played exactly like they were before and that is a far greater upset of the game than a simple dturn.

I want to be 100% sure that any ruling regarding the game has not own interest motivation by the admin of the game, now i'm not

[Dick76]

Hello,I very strongly hope that this situation is not repeated because the speed of the game is the fastest and when it returns four turn back becomes worse, so may unintentionally benefit one over another.

[2metraninja]

I just checked and the double move was done in the beginning of 325 BC. Reload to 400 BC - 2 turns before this is strange at least.

11/11/10 4:00 pm Janis Logged out
11/11/10 3:59 pm Janis Finished turn
11/11/10 3:59 pm A new turn has begun. It is now 325 BC
11/11/10 3:59 pm Janis Finished turn
11/11/10 3:57 pm Janis Logged in

I hope that the host have made a save from the last point of the game in 300BC before loading the 400BC save, so if need be, we can continue from where we was for the last time.

For me, the right thing to do in this situation is to reload the last save from 300BC, pause the game and ask explanation and a statement from Janis that he understands the rules and will not doublemove again, then assuming from St Jon's explanation that nothing serious happened game-wise (i.e. no kills, no moving of units in sight), then we continue the game from where it was before this reload - 300 BC and all seems fair and honorable.

[Dan76PL]

Well, I know that between Evalds and Paragraf was war and it is really unfair to go so many turns back - cause it could have influence on what happened. In such situation of critical DM, the game should be paused or DM immediately reported and ONE turn could be reversed. Here it affects all other players and in fact all should be asked before such big step back. I see on a forum a lot of disagreement for such decision and it is also my proposal to go back where we were.

[EvaldsUrtans]

ok, you want 325BC back? // anyway I will loose this game anytime soon so I might not be that interested to sustain it after that

[PMBMaker]

I logged in the game after i did my last post, paraGraf logged in shortly after.
I asked him to check the forum and he said that he had already read the game thread but he coudn't post because he had regitration problems.
I helped him to register in the forum so i hope he can login later (he was in a hurry) and explain himself what he told me in game.


He and the Romans are in fact at war, and in fact paraGraf confirmed this:

-Romans had make some mistakes at the turn the game is now
-As the turn is already done, Romans played their turn diferently from what they had done previously
-by the last turn previously played Romans were almost dying.


This game has a lot o time invested in it already, as much as i dont like this option, for me, either the game goes back to where it was or i'll quit.

[Rakird]

Evalds...

You hosted a game, in order to play it only if you win?

"I can´t win so F*** all the others, ill just turn server off".

That´s life

See ya all around another pitboss!

Rak (just quited)

[2metraninja]

From Civstats it is seen that you lost 2 cities so far, which this early in the game and from your non-creative traits and your score I can guess that you have only 1 or at most 2 cities left which means you will lose the game soon if you dont go to a some kind of agreement with your aggressor.

But it will be pity if you just shut the game down, despite the outcome for you.