DIPLO THREAD

[Dinner]

Personally, I think we should make them a target because, if I'm not mistaken, they're #1 right now, so maybe we should start building up some espionage points against them so we can set them back a few steps. Assuming we ever get spies.

[mzprox]

Diplo situation:

I can tell there is a loose coalition against RB, the other civ representatives are also concerned about their power. I'm in frequent conversation with 2metraninja from CFC, together we are trying to figure out what RB is up to. I use our knowledge on RB to help other teams so they won't get everything. for example I've told the Mayans that it would be better if they hurry with the great library and researching music so hopefully those won"t be RB's.

We have a situation with the maya... they have refused our no-aggression pact and border proposal. As you remember the proposal was that the border line would be our current SW city, Izmir, their answer:

"We are happy to discuss on borders, but on a fair proposal to both nations. As you understand your first proposal is not acceptable to us and we have already planned to have one or two last cities at the same level than Izmir."

I've sent them a letter to try to make them reconsider, saying that we are boxed in the other side and that the border between other civs are uually more south than the one we suggest, but I fear they won't listen to this and instead try to settle in our land asap.

and I'm afraid that we can't allow..

We need to discuss what to do:
-try to beg them to leave that land (most notably east of Izmir) to us
-try to threaten them with war unless they give us the land
-accept the situation..
-behave as we had accepted it, but prepare war..
-try to rush build at least on more settlers.. this is not easy and we have enough small cities for now.. our deficit is big.


here are the full letters:

"Dear Ottomans,

We are glad to trade goods and have mutual benefit of routes between our nations and we trust in peace between our nations. We are happy to discuss on borders, but on a fair proposal to both nations. As you understand your first proposal is not acceptable to us and we have already planned to have one or two last cities at the same level than Izmir.

By the way, we thank you for science information you give on egypt empire and we share your views about them. We already refuse to trade with them and hope this can decrease their income if you do the same.

We hope you understand our position and will be glad to discuss on a fair basis to both nations,

Best regards,

Mayans"

---
Dear Mayans,

Thank you for the answer. It's unfortunate to hear you can't accept our proposed border line. Our scouts have learned a lot about the world and now we can see that it is divided to northern and southern natons. The border between these nations usually much more south than the line we are proposing, actually the border area usually is a jungle which according to ur proposal would be entirely yours, including the jungle exclusive resources (gem, sugar, silk etc).
On the other side we are blocked by the Incans and a sea and we don't have other places to expand (except a few worthless tundra spot).
Please try to reconsider this border, we might listen to some compromise, but we believe you have much better options to expand in different directions while the land east and west of Izmir (especially the east) is very important to us.) also it's quite close to our capital, it just was not our priority yet.

About our information providing: if you like we can keep you updated how Egypt is progressing with music. We won't go for the great library and the great artist so we are not competitors in this.


Regards,

Ottomans"

[Dinner]

Given that we're hopelessly weak war is not an option. Let's begin by asking them where they think a fair border would be. It's pretty clear war with the Maya will come sooner or later so we really should begin our planning now. I'd suggest reaching some sort of agreement with them then attacking them when we can. What's their military strength and do they have any advanced units?

[mzprox]

Answer from maya:

Dear ottomans,

We can agree on a NAP with the condition that no unit can go across other team land without notification and acceptance. One other condition is to stop putting spy points on other nation. We will put some point to see your curve and then stop.

The duration to turn 180, with auto-extending period of 10 turns is OK for us.

Best regards,

Mayans

[mzprox]

letter from Aztec:

Hi MZ,



This is good idea to press them, because getting nationalism with liber is not really big advantage.




1) We see 14 cities of 17, and they produce 637,5 science points. This is with golden age, but without academy. I estimate them to keep above 500 science without golden age.

2) Their first GS is in his way to the cap, but he will be moving by one more turn.

3) They will ge another GS in 2 turns, and it is 100% GS.


4) They aint building any wonder in the cities we can see. The build wealth, theatres, settlers.




About the last thing I have to talk specially. I have to settle fast the zone that we were talking about to prevent it from being captured by RB. I will share spices with you as soon as we hook both and will maintain supplies while we are friends.




Just to make it clear what are your relations with Inca? It could be interesting if you capture some cities soon and make pressure on RB.

-------

In first part they are answering my questions about RB, second they refer to a city site in the northern part of the jungle. I told them we wanted that land though we kinda promised it to the inca already.. yet it could had belong to us aswell so I thought I would make it look like we are giving it to the Aztec so we get a free spice resource at least.
Third they ask us about our relation with inca. We are not ready for war (neither are the aztec btw) so I always thee questions like "we shall see, but not anytime soon."

[Robert]

I ask here again as I still did not get answer:

What is apolyton diplo address(how do you send these letters Hercules?)? Can I have access to it? Anyone can check isdg@apolyton.net?
If no answer I will make a gmail account for it, and I will contact with our neighbours from there, because we need to speed up diploing.
We need to negotiate with maya, egypt, hre, aztec etc.. well working diplo relations are important to avoid wars.

To answer this old question (I'm sorry).
there is no account for this e-mail address. Everybody just receives mails sent to this address.
I have always send out mails from my own account with a Cc to the poly address.

But the poly address isn't a mailbox you can login to. It just delivers the mail to all group members.

[mzprox]

We got a quite formal letter from India about our NAP and future co-operations:
unless someone has adifferent opinion to offer I will just accept it in a couple of days.

"
Greetings, Team Apolyton


We are sending you our suggestion for a formal treaty between our two teams for your review.

-----




Apolyton-CivFanatics Treaty (ACFT)

Section 1. Members of the Apolyton-CivFanatics Treaty

1.1. Team Apolyton

1.2. Team CivFanatics

Section 2. Treaty Duration and Terms

2.1. The pact cannot be canceled before the beginning of turn 200.

2.2. The members of this treaty cannot enter into agreements with third parties which interfere or may cause interference to any of its clauses.

2.4. Both members of the treaty must adhere to all clauses together.

Section 3. Non-Aggression Pact

3.1. The members agree to not declare war on the other member of this pact while this pact is in effect.

3.2. If any of the members is at war with third party, the other member agrees to not help to that third party.

3.2.1. Giving aid to a third party includes, but is not limited to providing gold, gifting units, giving espionage information, etc.

3.3. Both members agree to consult with the other member before gifting military units to a third party, whether they are at war with a treaty member or not, for the duration of the pact.

Section 4. Open Borders

4.1. Both members agree to maintain an Open Borders treaty to facilitate trade and unit movement for the length of this pact.

Section 5. Espionage

5.1. Both members agree to not exceed 100 espionage spending against the other before the beginning of turn 200.

Section 6. Map Trading

6.1. Both members will freely gift maps to the other on request.

Section 7. Economical mutual help:

7.1. Both members agree to help each- other with money loans of resources trades when this is required for short- terms races against other teams.

Section 8. Temporary Exceptions

8.1. Temporary exceptions can be made to the terms of the pact with the express agreement of both members. This is meant to allow either member to react to unforeseen circumstances or circumstances outside of their control.

Section 9. Amendments

9.1. A proposed amendment may be submitted by either member.

9.2. A proposed amendment will be adopted upon agreement of both members

-----



If you agree with everything in this treaty, please feel free to return a short statement that you agree and sign the treaty, and we will confirm the same back to you.

We look forward to your response.



Caledorn, Foreign Minister for Team CFC"

[mzprox]

Letter from Egypt:

"Hey guys, are you interested in extending our NAP until T190? T170 is not that far away, and I see a lot of conflict coming in the future to just about everyone. I think we'd both sleep better at night knowing we had another team nearby that we were safe from. What's your thoughts?"

Accepting it is not really an option, first we made a kind of pact with Aztec and India that we will not allow any of us to become target of RB and it wouldn't be logical. If all goes right Egypt still will be occupied with their war with inca at 170.
We just need a good diplomatic answer.

[Hercules]

offer a holding reply, saying the Apolyton executive committee need time to discuss how this might effect existing treaties with other civs.

[mzprox]

i told them we ned time to discuss it, but we can't hold it for too long. it would be suspicious anyway.

[Hercules]

Ok Say we have various Naps with different civs with different termination dates and conditions attached.

While a new NAP with RB would be attractive to us, unfortunately we feel honor bound by existing agreements. However nearer the t170 date things may well have changed.

A suggestion for a reply.

[Dinner]

That treaty sounds good as we're not any where close to each other.

[mzprox]

I made a NAP with holy rome till t210. They and the Maya both french, I worry abit that we can expect somethng from the maya while we fight RB and don1t want HRE join a war against us.

[Dinner]

Maybe we should have it out with the Maya before going to war with RB? I mean if they're going to attack us, and they probably will sooner or later, why not do it on our terms at a time which suits us? Like when we have the most powerful unit in the game and they don't.

[mzprox]

I have heard that WPC is going to attack inca as well. This is somewhat understandable, but it really helps only RB. WPC will be exterminated shortly after inca.
I will think about this situaion.. maybe we hould speak with wpc and convince them to not cause harm to inca while they fight.