Lizzy's rise to greatness

[Hercules]

Well there has been a surprise late offer from Sommers to take over the Civplayers team. He claims to have not been involved in CFC team or Civ 4 for some time.

However, though this might revive the game, the concept of civ site teams is destroyed.

The only things that makes me consider this proposal are

a) Sommers is a very capable opponent and would do his best for Civplayers.
b) It gives us the chance to end the claims of Uniciv (HRE) and (Civfr) Maya to any share of Victory, which in my view they are not entitled.

But can we close our forums at this stage.

Edit: It would seem there is no interest in our forums anyhow, or am I wrong?

[Hercules]

One further point.

OT4E who doesn't wish to continue for Civplayers, citing all sorts of reasons, is quite happily playing in a new Pitboss on CFC.

[MJW]

One further point.

OT4E who doesn't wish to continue for Civplayers, citing all sorts of reasons, is quite happily playing in a new Pitboss on CFC.

Ouch...

I think Sommers is just too late... If he showed up a week after OT4E made his last post or so we would have something to talk about. I wouldn't have a problem with a sub as CivPlayers is screwed anyway. So Sommers would just do the dirty work of not giving away cities for free. Which is all CivPlayers would do if OT4E didn't quit.

I think there's just not much to talk about this game. S-Apolyton and WPC didn't know what they were doing in this game. But other than that people acted predictably and logically. WPC, Maya and Germans were 100% justified giving up and vassalizing to someone. RB was justified getting dogpiled and lost because the attack came 10~15 turns faster then they expected because of spies and gold-gifts. And they would have lost anyway if Mackoti didn't hijack CFC because CFC wouldn't have DoWed CivFr in the first place. The only wars where one side wasn't getting pwned, and the DoW wasn't suicidal or forced, was CivFr vs CFC 1&2. This being the second demogame with much fewer players then the first didn't help.

[2metraninja]

Hello fellow Poly civvers.

Congrats for the awesome play, MZ.

And shame for those of you who blamed MZ

Few points to address MJW:
- Germans were not giving up nor vassalizing to anyone at any point.
- Stop saying Mackoti hijacked CFC, he was brilliant turnplayer and great adviser for the time he was around, thats it.
- there were many wars where no one got owned. Like Spaniards vs CFC - the war ended with something like less than 10 units being killed. It was huge hit for us as we were forced to spend beakers on military techs and hammers/forest on axes/catapults without getting any benefit. Or RB vs CFC. The war was pretty even with few cities being razed on both sides before MZ joined.

[MJW]

Hello fellow Poly civvers.

Congrats for the awesome play, MZ.

And shame for those of you who blamed MZ

Few points to address MJW:
- Germans were not giving up nor vassalizing to anyone at any point.
- Stop saying Mackoti hijacked CFC, he was brilliant turnplayer and great adviser for the time he was around, thats it.
- there were many wars where no one got owned. Like Spaniards vs CFC - the war ended with something like less than 10 units being killed. It was huge hit for us as we were forced to spend beakers on military techs and hammers/forest on axes/catapults without getting any benefit. Or RB vs CFC. The war was pretty even with few cities being razed on both sides before MZ joined.

1. The germans didn't vassalize; I misspoke. They did give up though and could have stopped or stalled RB by whipping longbows and pulling back when the catapults so up just like RB said.
2. I don't Mackoti hijacking CFC matters anymore as CFC wouldn't have declared on CivFr in the first place. Well it matters but not nearly enough to me to comment on it like (if I comment on it at all) I did. When I say hijack I don't mean that he bullied everyone to take over CFC; just that he took over CFC.
3. That war crippled the Spanish and made them not be able to win the game. That's getting owned. They were next to CivFr who (before people dropped out from that team) what they were doing and easily killed it with you later. And RB got DoWed by CFC after Apolyton and CivPlayers did the dirty work. I'm assuming you meant CFC vs CivFr II which was the same war as this war anyway: Apolyton+CFC vs CivFr+CivPlayers.

[2metraninja]

Germans choose to fight their hatred enemies WPC instead of fighting RB. This is not giving up, this is a choice. Germans managed not only to withstand the WPC attack while reasonably fighting on their other border with RB (RB did not took a single empty or unwhipped city), but to destroy the WPC invading army and push back in to counter-attack taking one of the WPC core cities. Get your facts straight.

I think I am already tired of repeating that Mack was not ruling CFC at any point, but if you will feel better (I guess so as he is the idol at RB and that makes more sense), OK, think of it that way. Because you seems way in to things and familiar with everything, just ask Mack for a first-hand opinion how he took over CFC.

I meant CP vs CFC, not RB vs CFC, my mistake.

As for if you count "owning" as "losing chances in the long term", then CFC vs CivFR 1 was the same. Ever since we attacked CivFR and forced them to use their GA and a lot of resources to build and upgrade army capable of stopping us, they were crippled. They never recovered from that. They were full era behind us when we declared them war for the second time. We had infantries and MGs and they barely got Rifles by then. They were still running around with knights.

Counting like this makes us the worst barbarians as we declared war to 4 nations and they were either killed off completely - Spanish Poly, RB and WPC, or crippled - CivFR. Mack must had been right calling me freaking Chengiz Khan

I see you try to summarize and systematize here and at the RB forum what happened in the ISDG and put it in something like "Short version of Voina i Mir" or "Iliad 2" for the generations to come after to know what happened in the ISD, and I think just like Homer you did not took active role in the events you are describing (correct me if I am wrong, I never saw your name in any thread, for which team you played?), so you dont have first-hand knowledge of what and why happened. It is OK to write history after the events based on second and third-hand information, but Homer was Greek, history is written by the winners, right?

[Hercules]

Is the CFC forum open now ?

So that I can judge for myself.

[MJW]

Germans choose to fight their hatred enemies WPC instead of fighting RB. This is not giving up, this is a choice. Germans managed not only to withstand the WPC attack while reasonably fighting on their other border with RB (RB did not took a single empty or unwhipped city), but to destroy the WPC invading army and push back in to counter-attack taking one of the WPC core cities. Get your facts straight.

I think I am already tired of repeating that Mack was not ruling CFC at any point, but if you will feel better (I guess so as he is the idol at RB and that makes more sense), OK, think of it that way. Because you seems way in to things and familiar with everything, just ask Mack for a first-hand opinion how he took over CFC.

I meant CP vs CFC, not RB vs CFC, my mistake.

As for if you count "owning" as "losing chances in the long term", then CFC vs CivFR 1 was the same. Ever since we attacked CivFR and forced them to use their GA and a lot of resources to build and upgrade army capable of stopping us, they were crippled. They never recovered from that. They were full era behind us when we declared them war for the second time. We had infantries and MGs and they barely got Rifles by then. They were still running around with knights.

Counting like this makes us the worst barbarians as we declared war to 4 nations and they were either killed off completely - Spanish Poly, RB and WPC, or crippled - CivFR. Mack must had been right calling me freaking Chengiz Khan

I see you try to summarize and systematize here and at the RB forum what happened in the ISDG and put it in something like "Short version of Voina i Mir" or "Iliad 2" for the generations to come after to know what happened in the ISD, and I think just like Homer you did not took active role in the events you are describing (correct me if I am wrong, I never saw your name in any thread, for which team you played?), so you dont have first-hand knowledge of what and why happened. It is OK to write history after the events based on second and third-hand information, but Homer was Greek, history is written by the winners, right?

1. There's was very few units so they suicide to get back at WPC. Leaving behind 1-2 units while you can whip longbows and defend forever is just too much of a gap. They gave up.
2. If you are the turnplayer, like mackoti, you are running the show.
3. Oh so the only war where someone didn't lose the gave almost at once was this one. This would explain why CivFr's veteran players packed it and left after you attacked them for the first time. Such is the evils of not allowing tech-trading...
4. RB & WPC were just free cities. So it's only three real attacks S-Poly and CivFr I&II.
5. With access to this forum, CFC forum a little later and RB forum I think I have a very good picture.

[Hercules]

Sorry guys but without access to the other forums (and interpretation) I find it hard to follow this post mortem.

[MJW]

RB's forum is now up.

CFC's forum is not up because the mod's younger brother just died so he cannot prod an admin but I just did.

I don't care about the other forums. HRE cannot do anything to us without CFC stabbing us and just teched along the whole game. CivFr, S-Apolyton, WPC and the Germans had disaster (some of it their fault) happen to them early in the game and never recovered. CivPlayers is basically just OT4E and we all know that he's a quitter with Hercules' research.

I have to point out that if RB plays again it's very unlikely the main-turnplayer will play and take control again. So the new RB team would be the same team in name only and we should consider that when playing.

[2metraninja]

Get your facts straight MJW, or play some serious multiplayer before trying to play it analyzer of games you never took part and battles you never smelt the smoke of. Or best all of that combined

[MJW]

Get your facts straight MJW, or play some serious multiplayer before trying to play it analyzer of games you never took part and battles you never smelt the smoke of. Or best all of that combined

My facts are straight...I might doubt myself if you didn't get called out in the RB thread. I read this entire forum and a large amount of RB. I think you are biased from joint-winning with Apolyton and are overrating this game--like how RB overrated the first ISDG after they won.

[2metraninja]

This kind of facts I am talking about you know nothing, but keep making statements and interpretations - for example, Ot4e did not played a single turn at ISDG ever since we killed RB. Even when the war with RB started it was Bemep who was playing CP's turns. But you never heard of him, as he does like to play the game, but does not like publicity. The guy lives in Donetzk - fyi this is the city where the most intensive fights between pro-Russia and Ukraine forces are fighting. I dont blame Bemep for not playing on schedule for the entertainment of wannabe-historians Ot4e said 2 months ago he wants the game to end and is happy with any outcome, as he dont have the will and time to play turns after Bemep was playing for so long in such a complicated phase of the game with hundreds of units to move each time.

I get how you read history and facts btw, Hercules said Ot4e is happy to play in new pitboss at CFC, but the fact is this "new" pitboss is new from already half a year, and when Ot4e signed for it, Bemep was playing their turns in the ISDG, it is not like he signs for a brand new pitboss after he says he cant play the ISDG turns.

When you say about Germans giving up to RB "whip longbows and defend forever" you must realize you sound like a SP player or just not very well informed about what RB had against them and what they could had mustered.

Another blatant non-truth in your writings is that RB cities were for free for us. "RB & WPC were just free cities." and "Apolyton and CivPlayers did the dirty work.". Just for your information, in the death toll, CP killed about 120 RB units, CFC killed 70-80 and Poly killed like 40. MZ can tell you if this is right.

"5. With access to this forum, CFC forum a little later and RB forum I think I have a very good picture." Who gave you access to CFC forum? How you have good picture to claim here and there who made what and who was controlling CFC if you never took a look at our forums? You might have a good picture if you take the time to actually read all the threads and if you somehow get access to the 100's of chats the actually involved in this game players had. And from going back and reading what you said in the Poly forum after you joined, my opinion that you never actually played MP civ is getting firmer

"I might doubt myself if you didn't get called out in the RB thread." What this even mean? Called what? I had to fill quite a big gaps in RB players information about what actually happened in the game. Well, not just as big as yours I saw you were called "lying piece of shi t" in the RB forums and because I never met you before nor I know what reputation and how reliable you are, I asked about you and I was told you are "genius troll" and to not "give attention" to you. But I am OK with discussing things with you, just get your facts and logic straight beforehand, OK?

[mzprox]

I think we should not use this thread for arguing...especially not about other teams. if you have anything like that to say let's do that in an other thread... better yet, do it at RB, as it is already trolled.
As for the question: I said it (even in my summary ) that We, poly, lost the least in the war. I think we killed more than 40, but it was easy for us as our units were quite advanced and many times RB gave up his defensive position just to attack us.

[MJW]

Okay,

ot4e used a different player and didn't tell anyone about it. I cannot see how I can know about it. If everyone else knew about it the ending might have been different. We might have used my idea of killing of HRE and Maya so they cannot vote anymore and then call it a draw (civplayers doesn't need the Ukraine turnplayer anymore as ot4e could take over because the turns would be much easier) .

I've played Civ4MP but that was many years ago.

Germans leaving empty cities is giving up. They could have made RB's attack not worth it by whipping longbows and forcing them to waste too much time by making them march up catapults and bombarding them down to 0% and then leaving just before attack. They would lose much slower and not give up their land for free. Instead they folded immediately and focused on attacking the Germans with elephants. In fact some of their cities didn't have a single unit to defend against RB. WPC was totally doomed before RB DoWed the Germans so it would make logical sense to screw over RB because WPC cannot be screwed over anymore. Them throwing elephants at WPC was the fastest way to end the suffering. They just wanted to get out of the game even if they don't admit it.

Lots of units in that CivPlayers stack was gifted rifles so Apolyton's true kill count is much higher. The first attack took out the nasty SoZ+Great Wall combo and a third of their army which caused them to give up. The reason you took higher casualties is because they blamed everything on you and sent everything east after they lost. Us crippling them was doing the dirty work.

Krill was just angry when he called me a lying piece of sh1t for calling a friend of his a liar and a cheat. If you read what happened after that and my excel spreadsheet you can see that I was right (The friend would have hit more than 1 in 44 billion odds if he didn't cheat if you just want the answer).

I don't have access to CFC forums but I will have soon as I've said before.

Current situation of opening CFC forums:

Thanks for telling me - the forum was initially created by someone else (I think ainwood). I'm not 100% familiar with all of the forum controls just yet, so it looks like the permissions I set didn't work quite right. It'll get there eventually.

Two things:
1. This is my first login @ CFC. I called it a dummy account as I don't intend to post here yet and just used it to PM you.

2. The forum hasn't been opened yet or I cannot see it for some reason. Can you help me please?

Ok, I'll open, but don't make a "Dummy account". Double Logins aren't allowed on the forum.

Hi Chieftless. I request that you open the IDSG forums as agreed before the start of the game. Feel free to comment on it or not. Why I, a random poster, am asking and not the mod? Please read the PM chain below:

Hi Caledorn,

I think it's time to open the CFC forums like it was agreed before the start of the game. The only person who can do that is Chieftless because she is the mod so PM her saying the game is over. I don't care about the other forums but feel free to prod the other teams...

Also, I was going to push you to release the save or post screenshoots but their is no great reason to when CivPlayers is clearly screwed anyway so I'm dropping this...

Goodbye,
MJW

Hi there.

I lost my younger brother a few days ago, so I am not able to take care of things like this right now. I hope you can take care of handling this through PMs. You can contact either xenu or Grimace about screens if you want them, and you can quote this message to any mod on CFC, and I will give them a short response approving the forums being opened.

- Cal

wow that sucks.

I will make a dummy account at CFC and just quote the whole PM chain.

I'll just say that screenshots aren't needed anymore because I now know that CivPlayers really was screwed.