Lizzy's rise to greatness

[MJW]

Okay, the latest you should open the forums is Monday if you are hesitant for some reason, Aeson...

If you check out the RB thread Mackoti didn't join RB for a slightly different reason. It was their disrespectful and arrogant attitude. That's because it caused their downfall more directly by making mackoti join CFC. It's not all bad for them. If this was a real contest between websites mackoti would have to suck it up and play for RB or just sit. Him taking over CFC made RB lose to RB and intentionally hiding his presence by not being on the list lets them off the hook for losing.

mz I'm interested in your reaction to CFC's and RB's forums.

[Aeson]

I don't see a clear statement in the CFC thread as to the game being closed. In any case there's no need to rush. Waiting a few extra days to be sure isn't going to be an issue. Opening the forum and having the game restarted would be a huge issue.

[MJW]

Okay then, I'll prod you again on Monday night.

If you read that thread I last linked it tells you that CFC feed gold to us and civplayers. This is a NAP-stab but CFC got away with it. In fact with the diplo situation being so well defined at that point and the fact that this is the last game CFC could have done that directly and attacked at turn 170. The gold-gifts also makes mackoti even more important. It's be a good idea to make websites update the list of players after the game starts in the future to stop some of this from happening again. You can stop the sucker-punch of what mackoti did but not people playing for the wrong site without opening a can of worms. And yes, mackoti, there is such a thing as wrong sites if the point of the game is a contest between them.

That post also showed that you made mackoti quit after you made CFC honor their agreement to attack Maya. That's some great work MZ to have so much pull that you can get passed the main-turn player. I'm pretty sure that CFC looked-up to mackoti which made it even more impressive. If I were active at that time I would assume that it would not be possible. Good work!

[mzprox]

are other team's forums open already? if so could you give me a direct link?

[MJW]

http://realmsbeyond.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?fid=48

I must point out the videos are down because Twitch changed their policy not because RB did anything.

Edit: I don't know of the others of who is up. RB has a lot of content so I was able to write a lot just from that.

[mzprox]

I run though some parts of Sulla's game reports at RB forums. Mostly from the early years and the war between us.

First of all, great quality reports from Sulla, great job.

I've made a little rant during the game about howmuch I dislike our starting position compared to other's, especially the lack of rivers. We had to choose between food (production) and floodplains (cottages), RB had both in their capital and ofc used them expertly. Little things add up and they got ahead more and more.
They were helped by getting a nice barb city quite early and having more space to expand (thanks to thier slowish neighbours).

We grabbed the land we thought were worth grabbing, leaving somespot to fill up later with cities and went for a scientific approach, getting academies early. The plan was to get ahead in science and get wonders/bonuses etc. This plan got hit by RB's great economy at several point. We lost the hanging gardens which I have counted on and later we even lost liberalism thought it should not had happened . And it took a big cooperation between us (and I think others) and cfc to at least they hadn't got the Taj wonder.
Yet it was nice to see that they had underestimated us at several points, thinking we got nice science from our trait but form there it shall be a downhill. Before the war we truly had our golden age. Got rifles earlier than anyone had expected, built an army very cheap and stole important technologies.
Between the 3 (main) civs which took down RB we payed the least for this war, which gave us the top position after it was over.
I can say that while our land was not that great, the geopolitics made up for it. We could delay building armies for quite long, we did not had a suicidical neighbour...
Back to RB:They did some questionable moves during the war.. They couldn't had win, but we really got the victory for quite cheap (after RB got the rifling tech quite early thanks to their cooperation with uciv I had expected much longer and more costly war).

[mzprox]

I will really miss civ, but no chance commiting myself for an other game any time soon..

[MJW]

Well if you check out the "post-game" thread I linked to at RB it looks like Mackoti pushed for the first war against CivFr against 2meta's wishes. RB would have still attacked Germans. So if mackoti didn't play RB would face straight three-way dogpile. So a good portion of my earlier posts no longer matter. The biggest error was not considering gold gifts which allowed the attack 10 turns or so earlier before they could defend themselves with rifles and use the nasty SoZ+Great Wall combo.

2meta if you are reading this, I don't know you 2meta but you might be using a different name here. Just tell me if that's right.

Edit: MZ, RB defended against CFC, because they thought they caused the dogpile, so they didn't defend against us.

[mzprox]

Yeah, RB thought it was cfc behind the attack, but actually we were preparing for it for a long time and we hadn't need to be convinced at all . At that time we (us and cfc) thought cp's contribution would be small, but they actually managed to build/upgrade many unitsand alsowe cooperated very well with unit and gold trades.

(since our forum is still closed I don't think 2metracan read thesepost yet). Btw I don't mind opening the forums.

[MJW]

I don't think there's any reason to wait anymore as 2meta/mackoti just posted a bunch of spoilers at RB and we are past the week deadline to find a sub.

[mzprox]

It's funny to read RB's C&Dthread, their speculation from spying and demographics data. They put great effort in this and got very accurate results about our civ even before we met . And it's funny to see making assumptions, corrigate when necessary.. and stuff like "Apolyton has now probably claimed the award for "latest research of Iron Working in a competitive Civ game", getting the tech on T157 (920 AD according to the event log)."

[mzprox]

Too bad we eliminated RB, I mean it's nice to playwith a team with such enthusiasim..much rather them than some of the teams i'm not gona name now. Btw I said it back then that my hope was that we don't eliminate them, not even criple them too much. I hopedwe take most of the former inca land while the invasion of cp and cfc would had failed against RB's core...at least for a verylong time. We would had helped cp and cfc, but our economy would had been the leasthurt by the war..
Unfortunatelly Rb's defense collapsed, they made several mistakes.attacking when they shouldn't had to or not attacking when they had the chance.This way the attackers had 2:1 kill/death ratio and not the other way around as it could had been expected.
So there was no stop, but to go for a total kill..

[Aeson]

Ok, I've opened the forum.

[OzzyKP]

Hello visitors!

[MJW]

Well it looks like no one else will open their forums without someone prodding them. I only really care about CFC and I suspect that you guys would too. So I think it's a good idea for someone to post there and you might as well prod everyone else while your there.