Lizzy's rise to greatness

[mzprox]

I told the reasons why we can1t attack inca. We should focus on 170 right now, to get into the best shape to start a war.

[Dinner]

Yes, and they boiled down to "I don't want to" and "I think their army is bigger". We just have to wait until RB and the other country attacks and that second problem goes away leaving us with just the first.

[mzprox]

we don't have anything to attack with.. RB's invasion will be swift and it would be too low if too attacked inca.. just for getting max 1 city. the others which we could reach will fall fast anyway to Egypt.
Yesterday I had a chance talking with inca: i promised them 200 gold loan to help them getting feudalism, they also promised that they will pay it back. They told me that Aztec too wants to buy their workers.. maybe they hd the same idea sooner than me..anyway I told them to reconsider it, or at least sell some to us too.
I also mentioned that we would like to discuss the possibility of taking the inca border city for ourselves. He was not against it, but it's just one guy. I will bring this matter up once i can prdict when that woul city could fall.

[mzprox]

my internet access is limited for these days, but I will be able to play the turn.

Few things:
Egypt has attacked Inca, razed a city already. see picture: got an idea: lets use our chariot to cut the roads . Egypt won't be happy, but who cares.

Interestingly india has declared war on Maya. cfc told me maya demanded much of zulu's land and threatened with war if they don't get it. cfc answered a war declaration to this. I can't predict if this would become a real conflict.

We got the fre GM form conomics, now we need nationalism and gunpowder before we jump into goldenage.

[Dinner]

Pillage the road to slow them down and see if there are any tiles we can pillage near destroyed cities which we can make money off of. BTW it doesn't even look like the Inca are trying to concentrate their forces.

[Hercules]

Pillage the road to slow them down and see if there are any tiles we can pillage near destroyed cities which we can make money off of. BTW it doesn't even look like the Inca are trying to concentrate their forces.

yep go ahead.

[Hercules]

Interestingly india has declared war on Maya. cfc told me maya demanded much of zulu's land and threatened with war if they don't get it. cfc answered a war declaration to this. I can't predict if this would become a real conflict.

Let's watch closely with gunpowder close and GA it might be an opportunity .

[mzprox]

Ok, but if I pillage they will see what we have done. We will really piss them off . first this then with the stealing if that works.

some other info:
Other civs are insisting that we too close our borders with egypt. I told them that I want to wait until our spies have finished their mission.

Aztec has promised us spice some time ago and lately gem too. they are asking for 3 janissary delivered before t170. considering that those janissaries wil lbe used against RB anyway, and gems will help us greatly in our draftings I say let's go with it.

[Dinner]

A few observations: I see the southern city has been settled and we have a second settler going to the NE, that is good. That said, we're not currently building any workers and it doesnt seem like we'll be getting any of the Inca's workers for our 200 gp "loan" but we need some from some where. We do not even have a road connecting our western cities to the Empire and the Maya have a large army two turns from one of our cities. At the very least we need a road to move military units on. Next after we get gunpowder in 4-6 turns I what is our tech goal going to be? We have a massive load of techs we have skipped including calendar, horse back riding, and iron working all of which would be good things to have.

As for closing borders, yes, let the spy finish their mission. What's the ETA on that? As for the giving of units. How about one luxury for one unit? Especially since we need the units ourselves and they can cut off the luxury after they get the unit. Also I'd prefer not to slave so hard just to give other people units as we need to let our tiny population grow as much as possible.

[mzprox]

Apolytan will grow in this turn then will build two more workers. Istanbul will make either new settler or a worker.
There is still chance that we can get something from Inca, we will see that. that big mayan army is quite strange there, but we have NAP with them, an attack from them would be quite stupid. They are already at war with cfc and aztec would probably help us.
at current rate we need 7-8 turns to get gunpowder and nationalism. After that we will get construction, ironworking, calendar.
For stealing it's 5-10 turns from now (the latter if we are going for max bonuses-there willbe many things to cnsider, first we need to see how things develop)

[mzprox]

As for the giving of units. How about one luxury for one unit? Especially since we need the units ourselves and they can cut off the luxury after they get the unit. Also I'd prefer not to slave so hard just to give other people units as we need to let our tiny population grow as much as possible.

If we agree on this then i will make the deal that way so we get he luxuries "forever". Not a bad deal considering normaly we would pay at least 5g/turn, one janissary worth about 80g (so one unit would et us 1 luxury for 16 turns.) But even beofre i mentioned this gem trade to them Aztec asked for these units. their reasoning was that their cities are quite open to an egyptian attack and if Egypt attacks them we can't send units to save their core cities fast enough, while we wouldn't be in much danger.
i'd of course rather use these units to take cities from Inca, so I did not want to give the units, but if we get these luxuries, then it's a differen story. also I promised a taoist missonary to them, which i couldn't send yet, (there is always a better place for that) and if we give them these units they will not need that missionary.

[Dinner]

I'm a bit worried the Maya are hoping we get involved in the war against RB so then they can march into our western cities virtually unopposed. Given that they can see how weak we are on the graph as well as we can I can only assume that army is there because they intend to attack us. The request for three janissaries from might be an attempt to siphon off units from us just prior to the attack. I'd much rather hold on to those units until we KNOW the Maya aren't going to attack as we have a good defense ready.

[Dinner]

I think it is pretty obvious that the Maya are getting ready to attack us based upon their placing an army right on the border. It's obvious we're weak just by looking at the graph and it should be obvious to them that we will soon get gunpowder so it's now or never from their point of view.

I'm going to vote no trades on units. I'd also like to see a road built to the western part of the empire, and a defensive force stationed there. Personally, I expect that stack of ten to move towards our border city in the next two turns and possibly their will be another stack to the east of it. I mean, why not? We're sitting ducks and they know it.

[OzzyKP]

If anything, Maya are putting units there because they are afraid we'll coordinate an attack against them with CFC. I doubt they'd want to bring another enemy into an existing war.

I agree that roads are very important to build, but I vote yes on the unit for gems trade.

[Dinner]

A stack of 10 units seems like more than just a defensive force. Especially as all we have there are two out of date units which we can't even upgrade if we wanted to.