Lizzy's rise to greatness

[mzprox]

New turn:

We have killed the lion, though not without injury, we need two turns to heal. (4/5 xp)
Bellerophon is waiting to make contact later.
Goldmine is ready we are second in gnp. this troubles me a bit though. the first one has much bigger GNP than us and I can't see how is that possible. We are researching pottery with 40% bonus and there is no tech which could give more than that. No religion, creative gives only +4 for two cities etc. anyway, it means that one of the civs is roketing her science, maybe with extra goldmines or very early pottery (in that case they must be realmsbeyond)

[Hercules]

This attack would undermine our position towards all other civs..

The evidence from other games suggests having a secure alliance with another civ(s) and then going to war is more successful.


And also what Mz says.

[DNK]

What he said.

[mzprox]

In my opinion going for offensive is too risky and costly while the gain is questionable.

Risky because they will have BW, the spiritual trait to quickly slave an army. With spearmen they could easily defeat us.

Costly, because we would have to abandon our current path for science, build units instead of libraries and pay increased support/supply.

And what could we gain? new cities? those would cost too much money and would be very hard to defend. One less competitor? maybe,but there are still 7 more and if we weaken ourselves we just be an easier target ofr the rest. More land? right now we don't really need more.

But in the most probably scenario we would destroy 1-2 of their cities, then we would be halted, we would have a weakened neighbor with sworn vendetta against us, and we too would be weakened, outteched by the rest.

We should play to our strenght, and that is to be builder/diplomatic.

For the best benefits I sugges t to make contact next turn, but wait till near the end of turn as Cal suggests.

[Calanthian]

This attack would undermine our position towards all other civs..

[Robert]

The early rush is powerful.
If we hide ourselves long enough and can build 3 horsemen, and then show up to their border to find out their strength.
Then we can always still decide to go for it or not. Imagine they have only 2 warriors in the city!

After that we may be able to settle for peace quickly.
Of course I'm not hinting at a long lasting war, but just a short one.

It's exactly this kind of stuff that makes people stronger in competitive games.
This is not a builder game.

We have the advantage of knowing where they are while they don't know about us, and we can take fully advantage of it.

I suggest that for now we at least keep our presence in the dark so that we can discuss it.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why not ally? 1+2 together will ensure that both of us will see through to the finish.

[Calanthian]

I disagree too. Only if we have a clear tech of economical lead I am pro-war. In all other circumstances war will only hurt both parties.

Competing for good city sites, expansion space etc. is a whole other matter.

[DNK]

@RP: disagree.

[Calanthian]

Will do that, tough they are usually late to finish their turns.

Make all other moves (not end turn) ..
wait with Bellerophon's move until turn almost flips

(I can also keep an eye on that, when we are able to make a move in the last hour of the turn it should work)

[Robert]

We have an advantage, we know where they are, they don't know about us yet.
Why not plant the horse city, build/chop a couple of horse (2 or 3) and attack them.
We'll have a very big advantage in the game b/c we weakened our neighbour a lot which gives us more room for expansion and less fear for our neighbor.

[Hercules]

Agree to that and watch out for barbs.

[mzprox]

Maybe a good idea to throw them off:

Move SE, SE. Make sure they can't go in between these two turns..
then we are at their border and can start negotiations.

And they really have no idea where we came from.

(so next turn: log in "late" in the turn, turn after log in "early")

Will do that, tough they are usually late to finish their turns.

[Calanthian]

Maybe a good idea to throw them off:

Move SE, SE. Make sure they can't go in between these two turns..
then we are at their border and can start negotiations.

And they really have no idea where we came from.

(so next turn: log in "late" in the turn, turn after log in "early")

[mzprox]

I'm not saying to attack them, just to be sighted first coming from the south so they think that's where we're coming from. Then they'll send scouts south if they haven't already to find us if that's what they want.

That said, my original impression was that they weren't a huge military threat and were way more focused on REXing and economy. I think the quecha is just icing on top for getting the UB and a deterrent for anyone else, but we don't have much to go on.

It's a good idea to try to make them believe that we came from the south, but Not sure it's worth it. If my theory is right they have pottery already so we could get some science bonus to our current research and we could start spening our espionage points instead of wasting them. if we move SE they still won't know if we came from NW or SW