Lizzy's rise to greatness

[DNK]

And we have to wait for the horse to actually get hooked up... We're getting close to not finding anyone until T100 now... I can't remember the last game I put contact off so long.

I don't think we should scout much more with warriors - they just aren't so useful once barbs are out, plus their speed is so slow they're more likely to die on the way than to actually make it to any other players. We need units that can make it to other players, scout their territory, then make it past those players to find their neighbors. Chariots have a much better chance of doing that, especially if we get them a visibility promotion after they take out a few barbs. That visibility promotion is also important for seeing the city tiles - very useful for keeping tabs on civs. And we need to do that before 1st and 2nd border pops make them out of range completely.

I would also suggest a barracks perhaps in the chariot city to get visibility quicker - it will save the chariots and improve scouting a lot long-term to make up for the short-term loss of production. This requires scheduling a barracks into a production city that will finish just as we hook up the horse.

[Calanthian]

@ Ozzy and Hercules: sorry guys to say it but the only way to judge that is playing this through in both variants into detail..
The 3rd city delivers very quickly and simply works very good (food plains)..



The horses can get hooked up pretty quickly..

In my variant the builds are: worker (3t)- worker (4t)- setttler (city 3) (6t)- settler (horse) (6 or 7t).
So in 19 or 20 turns + 3 turns travel time the horse city is built. I also tried the other way around so first 4th and then 3rd city.. but that is worse..

[Hercules]

Let's get those horses hooked up first. That city 3 spot is safe territory, we can backfill that later.

Tend to agree.

But advance with caution.

[OzzyKP]

Guys I think you should give more attention to the exploring / scouting issue.

Agreed.

Also, I really don't like the spot for the 3rd city. If you guys really want to build there, fine, do it later. Let's get those horses hooked up first. That city 3 spot is safe territory, we can backfill that later.

[mzprox]

current turn

[mzprox]

You'll see both me and Mz making sure we always have the tiles ready which the city can work.
The moment the cities are at their POP max they will start pooring out those workers..

But now we have planned two workers back-to-back..

yah, I plyed a lot with our workers, put up somebenchmarks (like the exact turn city4 is found two workers jump to pasture pig., exact turn whn city3 is founded it can start work on a floodplain cottage, and when city2 hits pop4 it will too have floodplain cottage. Capital will switch from lake to grassland cottage etc. I tried to optimize where to build roads to get the most)

[Calanthian]

Could you do regular screenshots?

[mzprox]

Bellerophon moved 1S, next turn recommended to move on forest 1SE (I think everyone agrees with this move)

What to do with him after that let's vote:
option 1: continue east until we made contact(s)
option 2: send him back to join home defense

my opinion is that we have too few units and we can't really make more without paying maintenance, but if we send only one scout it still should be Bellerophon as He is quite far away already. I'm strongly gainst sending two scouts, one is ok.
Btw Apollo is on his way to "fogbust" city4's place, warrior 3 (whatshisname ) is needed to protect worker2 and 3 against unseen barbarians (so will stay between cities). These moves are not really up to vote, we need them for secuity.

so about Bellerophon:
option1(scouting): Cal
option2(defense): MZ

[Calanthian]

On Bellerophon: I don't think he needs to circle back: we need to find those other civs..

[Calanthian]

You'll see both me and Mz making sure we always have the tiles ready which the city can work.
The moment the cities are at their POP max they will start pooring out those workers..

But now we have planned two workers back-to-back..

[DNK]

Regarding scouting, I don't expect to do it immediately, but as soon as we get a decent number of cottages worked we need chariots. Whenever we get the horse hooked up we should switch to scouting.

Regarding other things, I always like more workers, 1-1.5 per city, but then I'm not a micro-master as you two are But seeing as we can't whip off unimproved tiles yet, I do wonder about having so few.

[mzprox]

In the meantime maybe Belle move E first next SE and then circle back.

Yes, maybe that's less risky.

[Hercules]

In the meantime maybe Belle move E first next SE and then circle back.

[Calanthian]

In about t55 we connect the horse, we could start building chariots, but we are at our maintenance limit.. what should we do? disband the warriors? pay even more gold? neither is acceptable.

If maintenance is the point, then build one scout and let him run wild until he dies.
But my normal style is to scout more.. and I really like to see it here also.

We might find one more great city site, meet neighbours for tech bonus, know sooner of a danger and start early diplomacy, and maybe even a resource trade..

[mzprox]

Not much in this turn (actually did not moved yet, just took a look). Bear might go next to our settlers next turn (2S from city2's site right now), but can not cause any trouble.
So far it is suggested that warrior 2 (the one in the east) go SE-SE (a bit risky move, because we go into an open field.)

about scouting contact and economy:
Early contact could mean early friendship but also could mean to be early target. I'd ratherbuild a strong country and if necessary fight with more invaders than be backward.
Right now I believe the map is like a net. from the stats for me it looks possible that everyone got an identical start (or very close), and it seems that at least the top teams are following the same path as us.
Note that this is an emperor difficulty game. We have much less free units than we usually have in noble. 4 warriors 3 workers and a settler going for her settling point uses up all supply point after that each unit is one gold/turn. After the gold mine it's still about 5% of our income. I wouldn't go above maintenance limit this early in the game, maybe for those turns while we have an extra settler, that might be acceptable,
but: we have 3 workers and four cities. we need to build many cottages, roads, and need to chop 3 workers are not enough we need more, but then it's one more unit.
In about t55 we connect the horse, we could start building chariots, but we are at our maintenance limit.. what should we do? disband the warriors? pay even more gold? neither is acceptable.
Also take account how many warrior we need in close future: one in the cap, one in Aurora and two escorting the settlers and workers to city spot 4. this is the absolute minimum, not negotiatable. so what is left for scouting? 1 warrior at most but then at t52 we must be ready to defend our land against barbarians.
so please: when you say do more scouting weigth these facts, tell me how much of our budget should be spent on scouting, 10%? that's awfully big and it's nothing more but two extra warriors. How should we protect our land if we send our warriors away etc. i'd rather build libraryies soon, bacuse it helps in defense (border pop, cultural defense), free bonus to research, allows us to use our philosophical trait.