Our Starting Location!!

[DNK]

Basically, I'm arguing for having the first two cities be high in food and production. Yeah, we can cottage them up a bit, but I want mines and farms ready to go in case we need to switch to production fast. For such a dynamic and competitive game, we will be best served by flexibility and preparedness, even if that means forsaking our economy a bit. I don't want to get knocked out 3 weeks into the game that we've all spent months preparing for. I think the journey is going to be worth more than any finish we have (and let's be honest we're not likely to win - the other teams are just as competitive, so if we play well we're maybe 20% to win in this field), so we should aim to maintain a steady but sure path rather than an explosive economic one with a high risk because we've avoided flexibility and preparedness (F&P - I'll be using this often, I think).

[DNK]

btw, mzprox continues to best me in the early game, and I can't beat his saves. So far, either one's looking good, though again I'd want farms and mines up with more workers getting secondary improvements (for emergency switches) in place.

[mzprox]

The 2N start is pretty straight forward, the build order, the techpath etc, but the warrior-hill start has many possibilities. I have spent several hours comparing the different paths there. (I like this kind of stuff ). Biggest question when to build the first settlers and how to grow from there, how to improve the land etc. I try to optimize food/production to have the benefit as soon as possible. (in one case I found for example that I get better result if I work a 3food tile instead of the 3food1production for two turns.. it looks as if I'd lose some hammers for no reason, but later I got it back as extra gold.. and so on
One particular start I really like is to found second city on that coastal plains hill by t26!! already connected by roads. It would scare our neighbours when they would see in the stats . Unfortunately tough it falls behind to the other options later.

[Calanthian]

It would scare our neighbours when they would see in the stats

Well, that wouldn't be good.. scared people do stupid things
I hope we can hang low, and then be a sudden riser..

[Calanthian]

This one I am really satisfied about. I played it through until turn 63.

I settled in place.



* Tech (in this order): pottery, writing (!!), mining, bronze working, hunting, AH, masonry, mathematics (!!!)

So by turn 63 we can build our UB!
We are teching at a very high level and we can chop at maximum return > I think no one can stop us at The Hanging Gardens and we have a lot of chance towards The Great Library.

* 3 cities, two finished libraries (!)

[OzzyKP]

The 2N start is pretty straight forward, the build order, the techpath etc, but the warrior-hill start has many possibilities. I have spent several hours comparing the different paths there. (I like this kind of stuff ). Biggest question when to build the first settlers and how to grow from there, how to improve the land etc. I try to optimize food/production to have the benefit as soon as possible. (in one case I found for example that I get better result if I work a 3food tile instead of the 3food1production for two turns.. it looks as if I'd lose some hammers for no reason, but later I got it back as extra gold.. and so on
One particular start I really like is to found second city on that coastal plains hill by t26!! already connected by roads. It would scare our neighbours when they would see in the stats . Unfortunately tough it falls behind to the other options later.

So you tried out 2N? And there is a noticeable advantage to the warrior start?

[Calanthian]

I tried "the warrior start", "the 2N start" and the "in place start".

At the last I achieved the best results by far.
The hill we start at gives us an extra hammer from start, and access to all food plains.

The second city can use both the deer and the cattle (without even building cultural buildings)
> both positions are within cultural borders at turn 50.

[OzzyKP]

Cal, can you post your worldbuilder mock up?

mzprox & Cal, can you post saves, up through turn 50, of your success with various starts? There is still some uncertainty between the different options and we should take direct comparisons like we did with the test games earlier.

[Calanthian]

I posted my file already until T63. (see post #50)

[OzzyKP]

But you said you tried I the warrior start, the 2N start and the in place start. Can you post them all? And it'd be helpful to have a consistent turn to compare them all at. Mzprox posted some saves from turn 45, you posted one from turn 63, how about we get everything at turn 50?

[Calanthian]

I think it is better to compare a little later, that's why I got that T63 file.

But for clarity I added my T50 file.



THE SITUATION AT TURN 50:
* Tech (in this order): pottery, writing (!!), mining, bronze working, hunting, AH, masonry

* 2 cities, one finished libraries (!). Just whipped it at Apolytown.
* cattle and deer will be hooked up to second city in 3 turns. (this city will be POP 4 by turn 63)

[Calanthian]

My "2N start"s and "warrior starts are quite a lot worse than this. No need to look at them.

[mzprox]

p BC-2000p4sett1Cgrowfirst.CivBeyondSwordSavep BC-1800t55.CivBeyondSwordSave

Here are two saves really played untill t50, then I just rushed to see when can I finish the first library (done in t55, but with chopping).at that time the lack of luxury/health resources is hurting. I'm ready to grab more land

at t50: 3 cities pop 2-4-5, 4 workers, 4 warriors, about one finished granary but divided among the 3 cities, 2 tuns from writing (hunting-AH-pottery-mining-BW) made no contact yet, so got no science bonus from it.

[Calanthian]

Interesting, and good .

Perhaps the time is near that we need to go through things in more detail.
For me the "2N start" is no longer a candidate, it is either "warrior start"or "ïn place".


At my T63, I only chopped once.

All those woods near the deer are still there, and can be used to chop for the Hanging Gardens wonder (at 30 hammers per tile, as mathematics is finished).



If you want I can give you a step by step playthrough of my T63 game.

[OzzyKP]

oops, double post