Domination of Barbarians [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[France (DoB)]

No, this is also incorrect. The rule is HRE does not have to give the cities back until ten turns have passed, and HRE does not have to give cities back unless the DMW is in effect. The DMW loses effect once France and HRE make peace.

You can have the DMW or you can make a seperate deal. You can not use the DMW to enforce your seperate deal. Once you accept peace from HRE, your DMW with them is over and you cant get it back.

If France chooses to enter into a seperate peace deal with HRE that involves the return of cities and HRE agrees to do so then that is between France and HRE but this WILL NOT be enforced by the admin... Even if HRE accepts the Peace Treaty and then fails to deliver the cities.

So be careful France. I suggest waiting for the normal DMW process ie., getting the cities back as part of the DMW Peace Treaty, in one transaction, rather than signing a Peace Treaty now and then demanding the cities after 10 turns because I will not enforce that. There is too much opportunity for abuse or miscommunication.

So by this, France has irrevocably lost 3 cities with the error of a button push. With the one remaining city likely to fall to Portugal. France hereby request a reload to the HRE save as of turn 461 (805 AD). The Nether/Greek precedent is likely to come into effect, but I make the request nevertheless.

[Portugal (DoB)]

Portugal was not overexcited to capture cities, as you might have noticed, otherwise 2 - including France capitol - would have been captured until now without much efforts.

I do however think that France must not be decimated because of a single protocol mistake.

[England (DoB)]

It seems both HRE and France are being played by new players. Cutting them slack if they don't know the games cumbersome rules makes a lot of sense.

In any case, France should get its cities back as the intent was to implement a DMW truce.

[Sommerswerd]

I think a lot of this discussion about fairness may be premature because AFAICT, HRE has not refused to honor any deal they made with France. If HRE sticks to the deal, whatever it was, there is no issue. I would also like to point out that a prior HRE player lost a city to Byzantines because of misunderstanding the DMW rule. No one suggested HRE be given a pass IIRC. And in the current War, HRE did not ask for, and did not receive a reload after misunderstanding the doublemove rule. In fact I see that folks were quick to cite rules to the HRE player rather than suggest he be given an exception for not knowing the rules. In any case let's see what HRE does before making a big controversy.

[Sommerswerd]

I will try to get the votes counted and get our new thread done tomorrow BTW

[Holy Roma (DoB)]

I understand the rules and try to play by them. Between us there is no truce with France. I put my terms premature to conclude peace but France does not accept them. So until DMW I will fight and then I'll come back three cities of France.

[Holy Roma (DoB)]

Can someone explain to me why peace between me and France, I did not want this peace, but it is signed by an unknown way for me.

[France (DoB)]

Can someone explain to me why peace between me and France, I did not want this peace, but it is signed by an unknown way for me.

So by this, France has irrevocably lost 3 cities with the error of a button push. With the one remaining city likely to fall to Portugal. France hereby request a reload to the HRE save as of turn 461 (805 AD). The Nether/Greek precedent is likely to come into effect, but I make the request nevertheless.

Double in-game HRE blank message to France, one with peace attached, the other clicked through. Error of a button push=peace.

[Holy Roma (DoB)]

****, if I made such a stupid so I have more to learn about the game I do not remember sending empty messages for peace but anyway now I'll probably go back to cities, something I hate I do

[Sommerswerd]

BTW this issue seemed very familiar to me so I checked my PMs and voila!... An explanation I sent to a player when the same issue came up for them. So here it is as an FYI to everybody I redacted the message to make sure it did not compromise anything, hopefully this is OK with the player... First the message to me:

Hi Sommer.

I joined *A*B*C* against *X*Y*Z*, but the turn after, somehow peace was declared between me and *X*Y*Z*,. I do not understand how this has turned out. There was no 10 turn enforced peace visible in the diplo-window.

I used the Alt+diplo-window mouseclick, and now I am back at war again. Has this been noted to happen before?

*C*D*E* sent 1 coin to me, which I declined, along with an offer to join him against *A*B*C*.

I replied, sending 1 coin in return, that I must join *A*B*C* by reason [redacted], and immidiately after sending the message, used Alt+diplo-window click to make war on *X*Y*Z*,

Can this 1 coin transaction have caused a break in the war?

I hope you can illumine this conundrum,
*1*2*3*Player.

And my response:

Hi,

[redacted]

it sounds like is one of two things happened.

1. After you declared War on *X*Y*Z*, he sent you a diplo message in-game. Players often send in-game diplo messages with a nominal offer like 1 gold, just to make sure that the message is sent. They dont trust just typing the message, pressing Enter and then clicking "send" without anything actually offered, because they think it won't go through (even though it does).

You got the message and you typed a reply, sending 1 coin with your reply for the same reason... to be sure that it went through. Then you clicked send.

Unfortunately, when you are at war with someone and you send them a diplo message, it automatically comes attached to a "Cease-Fire" offer. Now if you did not remove his offer of 1 coin and you just typed your reply and clicked the button to send your message, what you actually clicked to send the message was an "Accept" button. So you accepted the 1 coin by clicking the button to send your reply to his, and you also accepted the "Cease-Fire" that was attached to it. That would explain why you were able to immediately re-declare War, because you had a Cease-Fire rather than a Peace Treaty (10 turn mandatory peace).

Now assuming that you did not accept his offer, and you clicked away that 1 gold before typing your message and then you added in 1 gold of your own to send your message, then your message would also have a Cease-Fire attached to it, and as soon as the *X*Y*Z* player logged in, he would have been able to accept your 1 gold and get a Cease-Fire.

The point is, that you should try to avoid in-game diplo (especially with parties you are at War with) unless you are fully aware of how the in-game diplo mechanics work. Try using PM and/or storyposts for diplo as opposed to in-game diplo.

[redacted]

I hope this has been helpful. Let me know if you have additional questions.

[Sommerswerd]

Now is the time to vote for the March Diploscore winner.

You can send your vote to me by PM or use this program to vote http://www.warner-home.com/DoB/ , but please dont use both as it is a little confusing to sort out.

Each Civ has 5 points TOTAL to allocate anyway you choose, except you can not vote for yourself. Remember that is 5 points total, not 5 for each Civ. So you can give 1 point to five different Civs or 5 points to one Civ or anything in between. If you don't vote there is no penalty, but you can't use the votes later.

Remember don't be a scummy double voter and please don't vote for yourself if you are subbing for anyone (for example, if China is casting votes for China and Japan, then Japan should not be voting for China, and China should not be voting for Japan).

As usual, we will leave the voting open all month, and announce the results at the end of the Month at the same time that we open the voting for next month. That way everyone gets plenty of time to read, catch up, notice that voting is going on etc. I will send everybody a PM.

Happy Voting

Most Importantly, Here is the current Leaderboard:

Netherlands = 72
Japan = 70
France = 53
China = 42
England = 42
Russia = 42
Arabia = 35
Celtia = 26
Ottomans = 20
Spain = 20
Byzantium = 18
Persia = 17
Vikings = 16
Rome = 16
Portugal = 11
Greece = 6
Holy Roma = 1

Here are the Final Results of the February voting:

Persia = 14
Netherlands = 8
Arabia = 4
Byzantium = 3
France = 3
England = 2
Japan = 2
Rome = 2
Russia = 2

As a recap Here are the Final Results of the prior voting:
January: Russia = 17, Vikings = 8, China = 7, Japan = 5, Arabia = 4, Ottomans = 4, England = 3, Celts = 2, France = 2, Netherlands = 2, Portugal = 1
December: Arabia = 10, Russia = 6, Netherlands = 6, Ottomans = 5, Japan = 2, France = 2, England = 2, China = 2, Spain = 1, Rome = 1, Greece = 1, Celtia = 1, Byzantium = 1
November: Spain = 12, Netherlands = 6, Russia = 6, England = 5, France = 4, Japan = 3, Rome = 2, Arabia = 2
October: Russia = 9, England = 9, France = 5, Celtia = 4, Japan = 3, Netherlands = 3, Portugal = 2, Arabia = 1, Byzantium = 1, China = 1, Greece = 1, Ottomans = 1
September: Netherlands=12, China=9, Celts=7, England=6, France=5, Japan=5, Greece=3, Portugal=2, Arabia=1
August: China = 8, Portugal = 4, Japan = 3, Netherlands = 3, England = 1, Ottomans = 1, France = 1, Russia = 1, Greece = 1, Holy Roma = 1, Spain = 1
July: Japan = 14, Netherlands = 12, China = 6, Byzantines = 5, France = 4, England = 3, Ottomans =2, Celts =2, Rome=1, Russia =1
June: Japan = 24, Netherlands = 6, Rome = 2, France = 2, Portugal = 2, Arabia = 1, England = 1, Vikings = 1, China = 1
May 2012: France = 15, Arabia = 9, Rome = 8, Celtia = 6, Netherlands = 6, England = 4, Byzantium = 4, Japan = 5, China = 3, Persia = 3, Vikings = 2
April 2012 - France: 11, Netherlands: 8, Ottomans: 7, England: 6, Spain: 6, China: 5, Vikings: 5, Celtia: 4, Japan: 4, Arabia: 3, Byzantium = 1

Congrats to Netherlands, the score leader . Well done everyone and keep it up!

[Japan (DoB)]

Congratulations Netherlands.

[England (DoB)]

Nether - full inbox.

[Greece (DoB)]

I want to say to Holy Roma, great work on your story posts. Great to see you so active.

[Holy Roma (DoB)]

Thanks for the nice words, I'm very inspired to play, but I just know what a great job was done Sommer ... the organization of this Pitboss, good for him.