Destruction of Foes (DoF) - Diplogame Light

[mzprox]

!Important!

I've just learnt something: there is an other mod in effect in the game and that is:

The research bonus for technologies known by other players has been increased significantly.
It was unintended to have this mod in this game, it came with the no-score mod, I took only the scoring part from it, but the two lines which made this change was also included (hiding somewhere) as I have just learnt.
It's actually a good thing to have because it helps the less advanced civs to not fall behind too much, but you all should know how it works:
You get research bonus if you are researching a tech that is known by other players. (only those players you have contact with counts, so it is important to make contact. It was important before the mod, but now it is worth even more) Normally this bonus is maximum 30% (if all the other players know that tech) but the mod changes it to 100% (actually the maximum bonus is less than this because it would be 100% only if all the players know that tech already which includes you, but then you wouldn't need the tech.. whatever, I hope it's clear )
So to have the most of this make sure you send out your scouts and if you want to maximize your research try to research those techs which are known by others.

[The Priest]

Wow. Guess I think thats a good mod to have for a diplo game, but how did it happen? More to the point, are there any other secret mods we will later bump into. Will I find that the wheel gives access to 'the dalek' UU?

[France (DoF)]

it seems that Spain has not played their turn with 3 hours left on the timer and it is past my bedtime. taking my turn now.

[mzprox]

Wow. Guess I think thats a good mod to have for a diplo game, but how did it happen? More to the point, are there any other secret mods we will later bump into. Will I find that the wheel gives access to 'the dalek' UU?

There is a mod called noscoreV2, it changes many things. I've identified the file which responsible for changing the scoring and for our mod we used only that. But that file also had these lines:
DefineName TECH_COST_TOTAL_KNOWN_TEAM_MODIFIER /DefineName
iDefineIntVa l 100 /iDefineIntVa l

Which I did not know what they meant and didn't even noticed. I only found this now because I started to learn how to make my mod for the next diplogame. The rest of the file is really about scoring, no more secrets

[Calanthian]

Myself, Ozzy and DNK have developed a mod "Gods and Heroes" to be played in full DIPLO style. The map is set in Ancient Greece.

Unfortunately one player has dropped out just before game start. You may join us IF you are committed and familiar with diplo games.

http://www.weplayciv.com/forums/showthread.php?5861-WPC-Civ4-Diplogame-set-up-thread/page13

[Bulgaria (DoF)]

Can I have approval for pausing the game while waiting for Turkey to respond?

[Egypt (DoF)]

I don't think we should pause the game for diplomacy. Send them an ingame message, they will respond to that.

[Ottoman Empire (DoF)]

Wow. Guess I think thats a good mod to have for a diplo game, but how did it happen? More to the point, are there any other secret mods we will later bump into. Will I find that the wheel gives access to 'the dalek' UU?

If you don't have the wheel yet, then not even the dalek can save you.

[Carthage (DoF)]

Guys remember to keep using the story thread as the story thread..

Sigh..

This is not a story post


And fellow from another dimension, this ain't either

Ditto

[Robert]

Can I have approval for pausing the game while waiting for Turkey to respond?

I don't want to be harsh, but no....

[Inca (DoE)]

Agree that we shouldn't pause just for diplomacy. That was a rule in DoE, and if we're not going to reload for double moves (not saying Bulg did that anymore, as I'm awaiting evidence and in all likelihood owe them an apology, but just for use in this argument) why should we bend rules we don't bend in DoE either? We've got enough pausing in DoE, I'd rather we didn't start that habit here also.

Besides, it all worked itself out nicely, and the world is in harmony and peace and not at all threatening to drive itself headlong into a yet deeper world war or anything like that...

[France (DoF)]

just a heads up so no one accuses me of anything, I missed a turn, so I logged in now to take it as I have to catch a plane and will not have internet access for at least half a day or so. otoh, nothing much is going on in the gallo-spanish war, so no harm no foul I suppose.
(i did move some spearmen to look threatening, but Spain can of course counter that easily)

[Portugal (DoF)]

I thought you were at peace with Spain?

[Bulgaria (DoF)]

Some thoughts on the diplo-spirit we all trust and obey to.

We are playing diplo-games for quite some time and it should have been clarified till now, but what actually is the diplo-spirit and how often it is abused?

Let see - the best definition I saw to date is that no civ must be crippled to a situation that it loses interest in the game. Thats absolutely fair to me.

But what happens in reality?

Turkey claims that they wont accept peace, despite losing badly the war with Bulgaria. They claimed the Bulgars wanted too much. And when Bulgaria decreased its claims to half, the Turks said they cant accept again. Why is that? They claim Turkey will be dead if they accept. How's that? Why Turkey have the right to settle cities so far away from its capitol with 6-7 tiles between them and claim land 3 times bigger and richer than Bulgaria's, but when Bulgaria builds army, settles cities 2 tiles from each- other, cripples its economy, falls behind in tech, population, development, etc, etc and comes to take some parts of Turkey, this is not acceptable to Turkey? And Turkey starts to call Bulgaria a cheater, states that "will fight to the end" "At least at war there is some chance for Turkey". Until which end? This sounds to me much of a "if I go down, you are coming with me" approach, which is at least as far as I know not much diplo-appropriate. And to become even worst, they will drag down another civ with them - Persia is bound to support Turkey with their word, so until Turkey is alive and fighting, Persia will produce axes and catapults instead of workers to improve the land and libraries to tech ahead.

OK, lets assume Turkey believes there will be no point of then playing anymore if they lose those 2 cities (out of 8, which is 25% and even not good enough for a measured war rule to kick in - not that Turkey will ever call for a measured war rule - they want everything back or not bothering playing at all). So for Turkey the case is clear - they will either fight back or die trying. But civs are not to be annihilated till 1000AD - does this means that Persia will be dragged in this too till 1000AD when finally Turkey can be annihilated and Persia will no more be obliged to fight Bulgaria?

I am not complaining, but I think something here is flawed. And I want to see am I the only one seeing it?

I took my time and counted some tiles. Before Bulgaria attacked Turkey (and after the fortunate outcome of the Bulgarian - Hungary war in which Bulgaria got a city and space for another one - otherwise I was boxed in to 5 cities with only 2 or 3 tiles between them) the proportion was as follows:


Turkey had roughly 450 tiles, Bulgaria 150
Turkey had 24 food resources, Bulgaria 10
Turkey had 14 happy resources, Bulgaria 5
Turkey had 5 strategic resources, Bulgaria 3
Turkey had ~100 forests, Bulgaria had <20

Now I proposed to Turkey to keep 2 cities and to claim land for 1 good and maybe 1 marginal city. This would leave me with 9 cities and space for 1 or 2 more, total 10-11 cities. Turkey on the other hand would have 6 cities and space for at least 6 more, total 12. And this is combined with a long NAP, so Turkey can commit to building up being bordered by an ally - Persia and a hard NAP on the other side.

How unfair to Turkey who lost two wars in a row is to end up with roughly the same opportunity for the future like Bulgaria or Egypt? Where is the diplo-spirit here and who is misunderstanding it correct? Not to mention this is a diplo-light game, where annihilation is allowed - yes, after 1000AD (which to my opinion is also flawed - whats that - a signal gun - let the annihilation begins now! START! You either allow elimination or not - if it was a full-diplo, a small hopeless for the actual in-game win civ could have fun time writing and posting great stories, but here?)

I dont know why exactly I wrote all this. I am perfectly OK with the current situation, but those are mistakes for - we to study them and take lessons in the future and not allow them to repeat.

[Inca (DoE)]

Turkey wants a fight, they've got one, let it roll until they've had their fun, I guess... Not going to fault anyone for wanting a long, grueling fight in a game that has "destruction" and "foes" both in the name Do note that the "cheating" thing was really my fault. I posted that without even asking them for further information. I think I explained my (lack of) reasons for it. Don't blame them, they made no indication of wanting that thought made public. If they don't respond with anything on it in the next 24 hours, I'll just go ahead and post the full apology...