Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[mzprox]

In civ4 pop1 cities get autorazed if they never went above pop1, after that they won't. Culture, buildings, even wonders don't matter. If razing the city was not Ottoman's intention maybe you can work out something to change what happened.. note I'm not playing this game and changing history may not be a good precedent, so it's your call

[Israel (DoE)]

If we reload I'll just abandon Jerusalem so that the Ottomans can raze it.
(or we have to accept that it's truely G'd's (!?) will that Jerusalem must remain b/c G'd works in mysterious ways and it includes reloads b/c of game mechanics

If I would be India then I would be angry to see that I lost a city while I wasn't even there.
And if I would have been Arabia then I would have asked for a pause b/c my enemy wasn't playing his turns.

[Mongolia (DoE)]

I think it is dangerous to go back, the odds that battles will turn out differently in relation to Jerusalem is too high to risk. On the note of autoraze, a city must grow beyond size 1 to avoid autoraze, culture has no part in it. If it is whipped back to size 1 it remains safe from autoraze.

[Robert]

India just logged in, but lost his city after missing like 8 turns in a row.
I think we should reload to the point where Arabia declared war on India. I'm sorry that I missed this!
Everybody else agrees?

Ottomans/Israel just have to do what they did if we reload.

[Vikings (DoE)]

Wow a Holy City razed? Wasn't it against the rules to raze a Holy city? Anyway I think this is a very anti-diplo move on Arabs part. A big No from me.

[Japan (DoE)]

Umm little confused right now. but why does the play your turn say i've been eliminated and who singed in as me?

[The Priest]

Do we have a problem with India?

Civ Stats is hard to interpret, but it looks to me like it is at war, missing turns, and apparently it is losing cities. Does it even know it is at war?

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

Thanks Ozzy.

It is wierd the lack of auto-raze. I had always thought that if a city had had a boundary expansion it didn't auto-raze. I wonder now if it doesn't auto-raze if you have built a cultural building in the city (or of course have expanded the pop). Jerusalem had expanded because of stongehenge elsewhere and religion but didn't have any cultural buildings of its own. I'm in the dark though. Frustrasting!

[OzzyKP]

Oh wow, I didn't think it auto-razed. I too thought that the culture would have made it immune from that. I thought you had razed it deliberately. I guess all of us assumed it wouldn't auto-raze, so you did everything right.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

I appreciate Israel's balanced words on here.

As he said, we did discuss at some length this today (which is why there was a longer pause). I offered a settler, worker/missionary and half any future shrine income from Jerusalem in exchange for the city. But Israel felt he prefer to risk the attack and either keep it for himself or take his civ/stories on a new turn. I was sad about that but his choice. I hoped that the city wouldn't auto-raze - I thought that because it has culturally expanded already it wouldn't but I must have been mistaken. I would have much prefered the holy city too! (Note it wasn't a shrine, though obviously had the potential to be one. Basically one of the seven religions has just been nerfed).

In this game with very little space and tightly packed cities, culture is the dominant force. Jerusalem had already stripped much land from an earlier city of mine two tiles away, and would continue to do so. For similar reasons ther offer of land in Africa wasn't appealing either since the Egyptian capital will soon have 40 culture a turn from wonders alone, and will strip the land away from any other city. Oh why didn't I chosen a creative and/or industrious civ!

The real problem here was that Israel had build a whole strategy around a particular story-line, which involved a challenging city placement. I hugely admire the story-telling, but to what extent does that mean I should accept the choking? I hoped we could find a solution - hence the deals offered - which would have kept a very disputed Jerusalem at the centre of the middle east. But Israel couldn't find any transfer of ownership of Jerusalem palitable. Game wise, Egypt is still the score leader, so I don't feel too bad there, but the story thing is a shame. As Germany found earlier, the tight squeeze for land compared to any previous Diplo-game is creating new complexities.

But for me the main thing is praise for how Israel has handled it. If we had the old DoC vote for attitude he would get all of mine. And the Turks, well as someone said earlier, it proves the storying about being warlike isn't just bluff!

[Robert]

@America: that may mean that giving 3 votes to 4 players and 1 vote to 8 players is a possible solution.
Giving away 4 or 5 points is very very valuable. Well, if we stick to 20 votes per round of course.

[2metraninja]

Well, I dont blame you for being unprepared, Israel, it just takes much of a courage to place a city that you know will be heavy disputed. Divine help would be also appreciated, but it seems your one true God turn away from his holly city.

[America (DoE)]

Yeah, I see what you guys mean, my issue was more with that in the event that say, eight players write really great stories that I feel should be given maximum points, then I won't be able to reflect this in my vote. I would be able to give 4 players max score, and the others wouldn't get anything.

[Israel (DoE)]

@Ozzy: well, my wonders aren't worth that much.
Great Wall b/c I didn't want to waste time fighting barbarians, stonehenge only for some cultural output to grab resources quickly (Memphis is on -4 health) and the Oracle just for being able to get to Judaism soon. And 3 wonders to get to a Great Prophet asap (got a Great Spy )

With the loss of Jerusalem not much is left now, 3 wonders.... well, that's nice and gives me an early score boost, but without the holy city it's worthless.

[Israel (DoE)]

If I was you Israel, I would count more on spears and axes instead of diplomacy.

I had an axe defense but it was destroyed (against all odds) in the recent invasion of Arabia.
This is my 3rd war in row.

Oh, 1 more turn and I would have had an axe in Jerusalem, making it impossible for the Ottomans to get it, and another axe was on it's way.
So I've built 3 axes already, that's not too bad I think.