Announcement

**England (DoE)** · September 23, 2011, 17:23

I like the idea of downsizing. I like also the idea of letting Zulu go AI and giving everyone a shot at them, with Europe waiting 15 turns. Could be a nice "scramble for Africa" situation.

But are we sure Zulu and Mongolia are really gone though? They've been dutifully playing their turns for months now. Checking PlayYourTurn it looks like both played their turn recently. They don't speak up in the forum much, we all knew that, but they do play their turns. So why kick them out?

I say we give China to the Aztecs, let the Aztecs get gobbled up (they mostly are at the moment anyhow) and then just continue on. Mongolia & Zulu will probably come back to playing their turns eventually. If they don't within the next week or so, then we can discuss what to do then.

**Russia (DoE)** · September 23, 2011, 17:47

I am quite sure Mongolia is around - he is decent player and would not leave just like that. I meet him sometimes in-game and we exchange few words.

**Robert** · September 23, 2011, 17:53

Zulu is already gone for like 100 turns. It's been subbed all the time by the Ottomans.
I dislike IA'ing civs b/c it destoryed the balance of power.
I also dislike the idea to hand a civ over to it's neighbors for the same reasons.

Someone should perm-sub it till the end of the game who's not involved in local politics.

**England (DoE)** · September 23, 2011, 18:09

Originally posted by Robert Plomp View Post

Zulu is already gone for like 100 turns. It's been subbed all the time by the Ottomans.
I dislike IA'ing civs b/c it destoryed the balance of power.
I also dislike the idea to hand a civ over to it's neighbors for the same reasons.

Someone should perm-sub it till the end of the game who's not involved in local politics.

Oh wow, I had no idea about Zulu-Ottomans. Shows how out of it I've been.

I definitely think Mali & Israel should gobble them up then. If we haven't been able to find a perm sub for them in 100 turns, we aren't going to now. It is so much more out in the open and fairer to have them just be eliminated instead of someone in the game managing them.

**Ottoman Empire (DoE)** · September 23, 2011, 18:12

This is what we know:
1. China must have a player (not a Temp sub)
2. Azteca is in bad shape but still needs a player because they are at war
3. Zulu needs a player
4. Mongolia does not need a sub, they already have a player
5. Mongol player reliably plays his turns
6. Azteca player is a fine player who greatly contributes to the stories

Why not send an in-game message with the login info for Zulu and Azteca to Mongol player (who we know will at least play their turns) and let the Aztec player take over China? That way the lower ranked civs all get played at least, meanwhile China has the active, posting player they deserve.

This solution allows the game to continue immediately, without getting any new subs, and we even get a potential power shift in the process, as the new China player will undoubtedly take a different route with respect to the war with India, global alliances, etc.

**Arabia2 (doe)** · September 23, 2011, 18:16

I think for an other game we should come up with a mechanism to eliminate those civs which don't contribute anything to the game (abandoned, falled behind too much whatever) it's hard to make rules in an ongoing game though and make it fair.
Subbing for them by other player is also not really a good option.. the world is divided, hard to find neutral player.. And for example I can't accept that "x" player is an ally of "y" so he subs for them for one hundred or more turns so they are now considered to be in permanent alliance.
So what if, just this one time we decide to eliminate all those civs which are no longer wanted, we would divide their land between the current players using score rank to determine who gets what. The method I have in mind:
The lowest ranked ask for a city then the second lowest and so on. then when every one got one an other turn begins..
The benefit of this system:
-everyone gets something
-lower ranked civs get the best pick and probably get more cities
-it still helps lower ranked civs more, but would not completely change the balance of power
If one wouldn't want to take any more cities he could pass or offer that to someone else. I know it's not very nice, but I don't see anynicer option unless a few new players happen to wander here and would sub for us.. I think we all agree that we don't want to wait too long for miracles

**England (DoE)** · September 23, 2011, 18:31

Mali has stuck with us a while and gobbling up half of their neighbor would be a nice reward for them. Israel has had many setbacks, they could use the help too. This seems like a great system. I'd rather have Mali & Israel get 5 cities each than, 10 players each get 1 city.

Aztec is already gobbled up. They only have one city left anyhow. Nothing really needs to be done, just finish them off.

**Ottoman Empire (DoE)** · September 23, 2011, 18:39

Azteca has 3 cities. Russia gave back some cities.

**India (DoE)** · September 23, 2011, 20:14

3 cities? if that is not way past any measure of "measured war" I don't know what is. shame on you Russia.

**Ottoman Empire (DoE)** · September 23, 2011, 21:03

They had 8 cities but they voluntarily gave 5 away, so I don't know why we would be shaming anyone. In fact, Russia is the only civ to actually give back cities to Azteca. Just an FYI

**Native America (DoE)** · September 23, 2011, 23:36

If Mongolia is truly playing their own turns, and are not also a temp-sub from in game, then just have Aztec move to China, let Zulu get gobbled up, and let's move ON. Everyone has their own idea of what they want to do, but the lack of concensus simply means we end up doing NOTHING.

**Inca (DoE)** · September 23, 2011, 23:55

Again, I am willing to perma-sub Zulu if it means I can do something fun with it and not really contribute much to great power politics. I would be willing to let the Mali take over some of the territory, leaving just the "Democratic People's Republic of Zulu Master Chief Ulundi the Erratic" in the remaining territory in the south. I won't develop any oil or uranium it has until such a time as these resources are widely available (not that I would be able to).

Even though the Aztecs have had some cities returned, they really do deserve to take over China. Even when their full civ is returned by me, the Natives, the Americans, and the Vikings (or not, I guess colonialism never dies), they are a solid player and story-teller and deserve a chance at a great power, I think, rather than a regional power.

If Mongolia is still in the game, so be it, let's move forward.

That just leaves the Aztec territories. I have no issues letting the Natives keep Tijuana and the current oil city in dispute or letting the Vikings keep it, giving the other major cities to the Americans, and letting me keep Cali. Cali isn't a great city, and it will be culturally pressed by me now after so many turns of my control and the loss of Aztec control. The Americans will get a huge boost with the rest, which is great for them, and the Natives will get a minor boost and another oil resources (they already have some). Our payback for being isolated half the game...

[Yes, I'm aware my insistence over the Aztecs taking over China is a good bit self-serving in that I can keep that one city, but that one city isn't much of a boost to my economy if anyone has paid attention, and I do believe in what I am saying about the Aztecs' deserving that.]

**Inca (DoE)** · September 23, 2011, 23:58

Whatever we decide, we need to decide it quickly. If we don't get this figured out in 48 hours, can we agree to let the Aztecs take over China and AI the Zulu and Aztecs, with non-regional powers agreeing not to conquer them (and I will agree to stay out of remaining Aztec lands)? Basically, let the smaller regional powers fight it out against AI to gain territory.

**Ottoman Empire (DoE)** · September 24, 2011, 00:46

Originally posted by Native America (DoE) View Post

...just have Aztec move to China.

Agreed. Everyone agrees with this, except apparently, the most important party... the Aztec player. We have not heard from him on this.

,

Originally posted by Native America (DoE) View Post

let Zulu get gobbled up

No. I do not agree to this. I have worked too hard protecting nurturing, arming and developing this nation, for it to just be parcelled out. And what about the units they have? Many of these are from Turkey. I object to them just being arbitrarily given away. I am OK with Mali getting ALL of Zulu cities, and units, but other than that Zulu needs a sub. Either it all goes to Mali or Turkey or Mongolia subs until a proper sub can be found. Anything else and I am DoWing someone, rest assured.