Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[America (DoE)]

This whole thing is pointless. If we are designing alliances that mirror the old ones, then the ONLY difference is that now the alliances are fixed and truly no one can switch his allegiance.

I thought that was the whole problem everyone was weeping and crying about?!? That the allainces were too deadlocked and static. So we fix it by creating 3 eternally static blocs?!? WTF?!?

Just start the game from where we left off with no new rules and be done with it. Nothing can save anyone except good play. Step up to the challenge or go suck your thumb. Win or Go Home! Just Do It! Write stories! Write like the wind! Need I say more?

I totally agree; the discussions have given everyone time to think about their future actions, so I'm sure things will change. Don't try to create alliances (EDIT: I mean, don't try to artificially create new alliances), just start the game and see what happens

@ottomans thank you for the flattering words about my gameplay Don't think though that it will keep the yanks from going medieval on yo a$$, yeeeeehaaaw (actually, I don't think America could if it wanted to, seeing as we don't even have the tech to cross the ocean )

[Russia (DoE)]

I dont know - after much thinking about it, maybe it is for real best to just continue the game with the 30-turns universal NAP and let the things evolve by themselves.
(I am just too afraid all will gang-bang on me )


Can we hear the opinion of the others and the host?

[Russia (DoE)]

Nothing can save anyone except good play

Not exactly. There are wars that can't be won. (oh, man - I still sleep - Bon Jovi someone?)

now the alliances are fixed and truly no one can switch his allegiance.

You have right, maybe we dont even need stating who is with who. Just allow this 30 turns universal (except vs tha AIs) NAP and the things will evolve by themselves.

[Russia (DoE)]

For me, the whole issue was with our alliance overpowered (or at least it looked like this to the other alliance - we say "The horror have huge eyes")

But now with 6 vs 8 and 30 turns to prepare, the final showdown will be EPIC! Stories are about to be written and events being cited in a years and games to come

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

Why we have to complicate the things with 3 almost impossible alliances? The world IS already divided in two - lets just balance this and play the game.

This whole thing is pointless. If we are designing alliances that mirror the old ones, then the ONLY difference is that now the alliances are fixed and truly no one can switch his allegiance.

I thought that was the whole problem everyone was weeping and crying about?!? That the allainces were too deadlocked and static. So we fix it by creating 3 eternally static blocs?!? WTF?!?

Just start the game from where we left off with no new rules and be done with it. Nothing can save anyone except good play. Step up to the challenge or go suck your thumb. Win or Go Home! Just Do It! Write stories! Write like the wind! Need I say more?

[Russia (DoE)]

Why we have to complicate the things with 3 almost impossible alliances? The world IS already divided in two - lets just balance this and play the game. This IS the world we created in this game - why would we change it to something completely different and alien?

[Russia (DoE)]

I still see a lot of problems - Zulu have no player and till now we all were talking about parting and dividing them. Inca said they are hopeless and I doubt anyone will take them. And AI in this so-closely drawn game is pointless. The same goes to China. China is no more. Now they have 4 cities and the Arabs have invested so much in the China destruction, so it will be impossible just to stop there. Not to say that Mongolia without half the China is hopeless at this point.

Also - India and Ica/England in one block?!? No way this to happen We are after (or before?) all humans - we had accumulated feelings and love and hatred - I dont know if those can just be erased with magic wand.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

WHATEVER!!! It doesent matter how many you put on Axis side. They are going to lose, because they suck . Lets go already Any alignment is fine with me.

[Calanthian]

If we are anyway going to make 3 blocks, we must consider the third block to be formed around Inca-England.

That's already in: they are the Democrats, those nitwits with no strong leader.. (see my Version 2 proposal)

[Russia (DoE)]

I've been in numerous pitbosses where at the end it came to 1vs1 block-wise anyway, but we can try it - let the other players say, but remember my words - the moment 1 block gets atacked, the other 2 will unite to fight him. Or it will be a 2-blocks plot to strike preemptively the third.

With 2 blocks everything is clear and simple We against them.

If we are anyway going to make 3 blocks, we must consider the third block to be formed around Inca-England.

Oh, and maybe because you were not in the game the last 7-8 turns, but China is almost dying - lost half of its cities and a Russian army is on its North border to finish them off. So China is out of the equation - we were suggesting to divide it mostly between India and Mongolia, while Japan take 1 or 2 cities/city spots.

[Calanthian]

Revised proposal:


And considering China: that would be your communist brothers who have fallen into disarray.. (e.g. let them be AI..)

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

Sweet, even better, so obviously, this means that I can immediately log in as China and take over for them right?

[Russia (DoE)]

Apparently I had some problems registering at the WPC forum, but it was solved.

[Calanthian]

Three way competition is much more flexible, unpredictable and open for a lot more paths to victory then a two way slug match..

Although we might swap some civs in my list..
e.g. make sure that Ottomans are communist too..

[Russia (DoE)]

Well after a lot of hesitation, I am prepared to take Neandor..
(even if that means I could get kicked around a second time)..

Russia (DoE) and me made a package deal concerning WPC/G&H and DoE with the result that both games get going again..

Yep, fantastic news! So, we are full crew and ready to go?

We just need to agree on the technical details - I think 30 turns universal NAP will be good to give the world time to prepare, renegotiate, rearrange deals, reshape politics, etc. (with the exclusion to the universal NAP being the war against the China AI - I will join from the north and China will be no more in few turns, then divided or just the cities to be gifted in-game to avoid destruction and further loss of soldiers). Also Zulu I suggest to be divided equally between Mali and Israel by gifting cities and gifting/erasing any soldiers, so the capitol can be conquered.

I dont particular like going to extremes with the alliances with reshaping absolutely everything - after all, the game was fairly balanced the way it was and it have so much tradition and history embedded in everything this game was so far. Now with all those revelations and all said, our alliance will suffer greatly anyway as of everyone is considering me an evil mastermind and I will have hard time finding support in anything. Plus, there are mixed armies/economics/tactic with few nations and will be hard and farce to try to split and pretend those nations were never allies.

The way I see it, after so much debates and so many and strong points that independent nations just did not worked in this game, and the strong bi-polarizing which occurred in this game, and the impending titanic clash of the two super-blocks, I think it will be most realistic and most intuitive we to continue this bi-polar model, just to try and leverage it a bit better, as here are lot of voices that say it is unfairly unbalanced the way it is.

Here I will point the obvious and very strong ties between nations, in which those respective nations invested a lot and which I think will be unnatural and perverted we to try and cut artificially:

Neandor-France-Viking
Russia-Turkey
Inca-England
Arabia-India

So, we have 4 blocks so far.

"Independent" nations:
Japan
Natives
Israel
Mali
America
Mongolia

We can call them Communists and Democrats or Fascists (great idea, Calanthian) - to strengthen the role-playing aspect and the real-life reference. But I think 2 blocks is the way to go. 3 blocks will again end up in 2 blocks opposing each-other, just they will be largely unbalanced. With 3 blocks, the first to attack, will face the resistance of the other 2. Or if 2 blocks can come to a deal to attack the third, it will be again too unbalanced - 2 vs 1 on this large scale isnt fun.

Neandor-France-Viking and Arabia-India blocks go together like a horse and carriage Democrats or Fascists you guys choose to be called? (I think Fascists is more appropriate, as they were called trough the whole game as The Axis, and their mainstay was/is the Neandors/Germany.

Russia-Turkey and Inca-England were already in alliance and also they stay good on the map - divided in two on two continents. Communists.

So, we have to distribute the other nations somewhat to balance the blocks.

I want to hear ideas of you guys, but I think Japan and India will never work together, so Japan goes to the Communists.

Mongolia goes to the Axis to balance the things and to make sure almost whole China land/resources joins the previously supposedly weaker Axis block

America (USA) and the Natives goes to the Axis too to balance the Americas - basically South America is to the Communist, while north goes to the Fascists/Democrats Axis

Mali becomes Communists - he was supporting us and we had supported him trough the most of the time (and a lot of countries in RL Africa was Communist)

Israel joins the Axis - they were with the Axis at some point and there is bad blood between Israel and Turkey (maybe with Russia too )

So at the end, the two super-alliances will look like this:

Axis (fascists or democrats):
Neandor-France-Viking-Arabia-India-Mongolia-Natives-America

Communists:
Russia-Turkey-Inca-England-Japan-Mali

Thats 8 vs 6 and those 8 include most of the land/resources of China.

We had to check the math behind this - Score-wise, Army-wise, land-wise but I think the sums will be pretty evenly matched, if not in the Axis advantage.

This is only idea, but I think it is highly doable and intuitive

What you guys say?