Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[India (DoE)]

also, @ Russia, this game is over. You have won, I am only playing on to see who comes 2nd.

And I did not start this discussion, I started a war and then China's friends have said that "oh, that is unreasonable", while similar things have been done to others before without them speaking out. I am not trying to get anyone to reveal anything aside from their hypocrisy. The org thread is supposed to be OOC and whatever our desires ingame should be kept out of it. Japan has the decency to say what he believes despite the fact that it goes against his ingame interests. Too bad that other players do not have such integrity.

[India (DoE)]

I am not bending any truths.

As I see it, Japan would have done much better had they challenged China rather than join them. They chose instead to stay friendly resulting in their alliance becoming so lopsided that I now consider Japan a puppet rather than any form of equal partner in that alliance. That is my honest opinion. Had Japan done the logical thing and gone after the valuable Asian mainland (by force, allying itself with me and even the Mongols would have had an interest here), then both China and Japan would have been major powers instead of China being a superpower and Japan being backwards. Not doing the logical thing because of loyalty to a far superior ally is in my opinion the same as being a puppet. Being the ruler of a nation means playing after the rules of Realpolitik, principles are for the vanquished.

As for revealing secrets, I am fairly sure already that it was Russia, not China that gave Japan its Riflemen upgrades, so no great secrets revealed for my sake, but that is OOC, not IC. IC India still blames China for this, and now we are taking our revenge, but that belongs in the story thread. Only question is, when is China coming back?

[Russia (DoE)]

Guys, guys, I know what you are trying to do - the game is far from being finished or pointless, nor you think about it like this, but you are trying to lure me and other nations (just like Japan did already) in disclosing things, which should be kept away of the public until the game really ends, as people in affection tend to lose control. You are trying to set the things and expose some private thoughts. Also, by bending the truth (as I see 3 absolutely not true statements in these last couple of pages) you are trying to see which is secret and which is known to your rivals, and to add to this, you are trying to set or change the opinion and feelings of some players with out-of-game arguments for taking in-game decisions now or in the near future

Lets leave all the analysis and dissections for after the game. I am quite sure there will be lot of surprises and things to amaze, indignate and taught us when anyone can speak in open for things that happened in the game.

[Russia (DoE)]

Hey guys, please don't talk about the game as it was finished. I've joined for the sole purpose to win the game, I expect you to try to stop me . Seriously though cheer up, there are always nukes :P

One manly statement!

If you - the others who talk about how there is not to be done anymore in the game - despair so easy - then it is not anyone else's fault.

[Japan (DoE)]

Also I cant beleive Im going to say this but I have to side with India on this one. There is nothing wrong with attacking a larger power and burning down some cities. It is exqctly what I would have done where I to have attacked a large power like china.

[Japan (DoE)]

You would be surprised at the amount of players who have absolutely no understanding of that concept. It has been an annoyance to me in every diplogame I have been in.

In this game Japan has been nothing but a 100% puppet of China since the beginning. They could have made huge gains by taking valuable lands on the Chinese coast, but chose to be China's retarted little brother stuck on their crappy islands in return for gifts that they would have owned themselves in the first place if they had bothered to take the lands in question.

This is untrue. I have never been a puppet. I wanted to get some cities on the mainland but china grabbed everything before i even had sailing. So to avoid war I stayed to my islands and in return got a great prophet to creat my holy shrine. Other then that I have not received much of anything for me.

[Aztecs (DoE)]

* One point I'd like to see in another diplo game is to somehow limit the size of an alliance.
My limit would be 25% of the players in the game (and that's a huge alliance).


* Furthermore I'd like to limit the amount of troops one can receive as gifts.
The Ottomans never even invented rifling. Pretty ridiculous from a historical / gaming point of view..



Some additional remarks:
From my point of view: I tried to keep independent as long as possible. And hoped for a couple of alliances from which to choose later depending on playing style etc. etc.
The main reason I sided against Russia was the kindergarten bully style : you do what I tell you or else.. and I knew before I chose that it would be the hardest path..

[Arabia2 (doe)]

Hey guys, please don't talk about the game as it was finished. I've joined for the sole purpose to win the game, I expect you to try to stop me . Seriously though cheer up, there are always nukes :P

[India (DoE)]

Part of the game is to play for victory not to let your ally win

You would be surprised at the amount of players who have absolutely no understanding of that concept. It has been an annoyance to me in every diplogame I have been in.

In this game Japan has been nothing but a 100% puppet of China since the beginning. They could have made huge gains by taking valuable lands on the Chinese coast, but chose to be China's retarted little brother stuck on their crappy islands in return for gifts that they would have owned themselves in the first place if they had bothered to take the lands in question.

[India (DoE)]

this game suffers from what most diplogames suffer from, top heavy alliances. the top players see far more gain in working together than fighting eachother, causing the minor civs who are trying to get up to meet an unstoppable wall. Now India has smashed through that wall by killing Chinese cities and the other great powers friendly to China says that this is unacceptable.

Not a single one of you have responded to my IMO inescapable logical argumentsin my posts that show that there should be no reason China should complain about being reduced to the size of India. If it is ok for India to be reduced to that size then give me a single good reason that this should not also happen to China?

I evened the odds to be able to fight a war. Simple as that. China is still in a better position, but they are not now twice my size. Nothing unfair here, move along.

[mzprox]

I don't know too well what's going on in this game, but there is always a chance that the 2nd, 3rd etc civs decide that 2nd or 3rd place is not good enough. It's an other question that there is no point of them being allies at all. Part of the game is to play for victory not to let your ally win

[Vikings (DoE)]

Well, this is how you feel at this moment - maybe tomorrow you will feel different. If you just give up, you will never know.

No. I really won't. There is nothing that the ACE can do in this game anymore.

You outright own the Ottomans, the English, the Mali, the Zulus, the Native Americans and (I guess) to a lesser extent the Arabians and the Incas. The Incas say they are not your allies but back when we were at war they wouldn't help the ACE against you, and there is no way that the Ottomans could have gotten such a large stack of destroyers built so quickly a few turns ago without Incan help. The Incas also ignored any American-continent protocol and settled near American lands a turn before me because I was actually asking the Americans if I could settle the northern American oil tile. Until the new player took over the Arabians were in your pocket as well and you've bullied the new player and told him there would be repercussions if they sold oil to us.

Four of the six top players (according to score) are part of your alliance, and China might as well be since they decided that they hate the Vikings, which means they would side with you in anything that threatens the ACE. The ACE's only allies are America and the Aztecs (who have been decimated because you and your dog decided that you didn't want the ACE to have oil). We can't even directly respond to your aggression because of the treaty.

I applaud you. You've played the game perfectly. You win. I just can't see playing 80 (or even worse 330) more turns of doing nothing because I can't do anything. I have no desire to write anything more in the story threads. So what is the point of playing?

[Russia (DoE)]

Hah! What is said when enemies are taunting at each-other isnt exactly a reason one of them to get scared and give up, isnt it? And I am not sure I said that England INTEND to do this. About what I am sure I did said is that I will make sure they DONT DO this. (I have sceenies, but its not worth to go and check - after all we were enemies back then and I kept what I DID promised that I will do to the letter, didn't I?

It is whole different story that you and your allies allowed this to be a real option for England to consider

Because you already own half the world through yourself (the strongest nation who feels they can get away with anything because they actually can) and your horde of cronies and hounds.

Well, this is how you feel at this moment - maybe tomorrow you will feel different. If you just give up, you will never know.

[Vikings (DoE)]

I think it is too early to discuss the things in an ongoing game, but will anyway address few points:

It was not England who threatened you - it was me who introduced at your attention the real threat that the English fleet and army can raze all your 3 poorly defended cities in Scandinavia, including your Holy City. And you just took the life-saving belt I threw to you I can hear someone calling "speculation" and "bluff", but this would have been not exactly the truth

You told me that the English intended to raze my cities. I would NOT have asked for peace if all they intended to do was capture them. I could have captured them back later when Neandor and France returned some of the units I sent off to them. But if the cities were razed then I would have been crippled for the rest of the game.

Of course! Why would we want to end prematurely such a great game?

Because you already own half the world through yourself (the strongest nation who feels they can get away with anything because they actually can) and your horde of cronies and hounds.

[India (DoE)]

as for China's presence, I had no idea until the turn I attacked, after that I checked to see when China usually plays his turns and saw that he has not played for a while.

As for the razings: No chance in hell could I ever fight China militarily, yet the entire game they have used their position to squash me. I told them in the early game that if they did so they would eventually regret it. I have been planning this for some time now, the Japanese attack delayed me, then the war result accelerated my plans.

I did what I did to put China and India on an equal footing so I would have at least a snowball's chance in hell of winning. Why is it wrong for me to reduce China to my strength so that I can win a war against them? Am I supposed to accept mediocracy and be unable to do anything about it? Why can I be crushed into mediocrity, but China can not?

I am basing my "measured war limit" on the notion that I will not reduce China below the level of the weakest civs in the game. Or is there a rule that says that a top tier civ should not be hurt too much?