Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[Russia (DoE)]

I dont know what to say from the position of the most accused player for being a top dog.

I know that the hungry ones dont believe the sated ones.

[Inca (DoE)]

k, well, I'm not able to be very serious about that threat, Arabia, as I won't be around to execute on any threats anyway, as I certainly hope to not be subbing China for even 1 more turn. Just noting that the guy who takes over for me (or if the original returns) will likely take issue with those workers, MGs, and (I would guess) rifles India has in supply. I can't quite think of any place more appropriate, as I'm not going to make stories for China in the story thread, and it's a bit of side chat on the game, given that, really, what can I do about it? You want me to make a story about it? "Chinese officials tell Arab officials: you're either with us or against us!" I spend enough time writing stories lately, I don't need to start writing them for other civs I'm temporarily subbing for.

On to me-as-Inca: again, I'm not really fighting India, and I'm not because I agree that a major involvement on my part would be excessive, and because I know it isn't necessary. Now, if India had stacks of infantry and artillery at China's door, that'd be another matter, but I don't need to be heavily involved. This is some very minor involvement and story telling getting mixed up with a real commitment to destroy India. A few destroyers and airships isn't going to change much at all. Hell, I'm probably taking out the airforce as it will be fairly useless as-is and I prefer to use it for the IRS. I'd say this whole war is a liability with little chance of making a difference, but I'm following my role as I think I should and following my diplomacy as is appropriate for my position. I'm not being open with all my IC reasons for this war, but they should come out in future posts. Sorry for playing the game as a diplo game and giving myself good story-telling and role-playing inspiration.

All that said, I think I'm just too nice in general if this is what I'm getting so much flak for. I need to Turkicize myself and just declare war on everything within 20 tiles of India for no apparent reason...

---

I don't need to get involved for China to raze every Indian city in 10T. Now, as China, okay, I'm still not sure how to proceed with retribution, but clearly the real Chinese player wouldn't have just said "okay, let's make a deal and I won't raze any of your cities."

I am certainly torn in how to operate this war and its aims if I have to continue past a few more turns. On the one hand, I don't really think it's fair to India for them to lose any further cities given what they've lost so far (losing their peripheral AND core cities is a big difference to me), and I am not personally one to raze. On the other hand, I feel the original player (any player really) would want to see blood for blood, and wouldn't be satisfied until a full price had been paid by India. If this happened to me, and I wasn't quite the nice guy I am, I would start razing and pillaging until someone called a vote to stop it. That said, I am me and this isn't my civ to get so upset over, so what to do... play it as though I was the subjective player, or play it as myself? These are decisions that are best suited for a long-term player in the spot, and I can't be that guy, so I hope that guy presents himself soon.

[Inca (DoE)]

One further thing. If we need to pause for a sub for India, I want to know before I have to take my next sub-turn as China (in 2 hours). As I explained above, I'm not terribly keen on subbing for China long-term, and honestly would prefer to bow out before having to properly invade India, which will happen this turn if I play. I know I signed up for it, so it's cool if I have to, I certainly expected as much of course; but, if we're pausing anyway, might as well pause it now to give a proper sub for China the chance to step in as we find another sub for India.

I hope India will stick around, of course, but I can appreciate their distaste with the current state of affairs. I don't know why they didn't call a measured war vote before this point, given how upset this stuff has made them, but that's their affair. I don't think anyone should have to play through a war that makes them this angry for such a long time.

And, hey, if India needs a sub, I can do that too, why not?

[Arabia2 (doe)]

You know my problem was that if you accuse me IC for helping China's enemies then I could had answer IC, but OOC it would seem silly if I try to excuse myself

About what should China do: I don't know, but probably I would press on and take over half of India before any peace talk.. but that's just what I'd do if I could.

About Inca's involvement I will make a longer post later (beware :P)

[Russia (DoE)]

Yeah, it will be best if a proper sub (replacement I mean) takes China. Pause? (as much as I hate this)

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

I dont know what to say from the position of the most accused player for being a top dog.

I know that the hungry ones dont believe the sated ones.

I agree with this, but there is not much you can do about it. it is natural human nature to be sore when things don't necessarily go your way, even more so when your misfortunes are caused by others and even doubly more so when those others are conspiring against you.

You should not even suggest things like that in the ooc thread, it's not the place.

I agree, and I also think that...

Hey Inca, why don't you suck a dick. India vs China, and you decide make war against me? I'm doomed anyway, what the hell is the point of you making an almost impossible situation absolutely pointless? Really, this game has not seen enough super-power gangbangs of the minors?

I was looking forward to a last-stand fight, but now there is no point to even that.

There is no fun in this game for me anymore. I'm out.

this...

And guys: if you are bored why don't you find someone to fight in your league?

this

hehe, just trying to play China as the normal player would. I figure he'd be hell bent on retribution and taking out anyone who helped the Indians.

this...

It is possible that I used the wrong word, what I meant was: someone in your own size/class/power

this...

Ah, this was meant to say to the Inca that he go and find someone his category to fight with?

and this, should have all been stories not OOC org thread posts. C'mon guys! What happened to the good old days when the arguments about in-game stuff (like who should or should not be attacking who) happened in story form in the story thread?

Gosh I miss India already. At least he knew how to make a good story thread complaint. I havent even read the last Inca posts yet, but I am guessing it also contains a buch of IC related stuff that could have been in the Story thread.

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

k, well, I'm not able to be very serious about that threat, Arabia, ...

I am certainly torn in how to operate this war...

To me these two comments strongly indicate that Inca SHOULD NOT sub for China anymore. Its one this to be torn or indecisive, or unsure about what to do as a sub, and quite another to say so publicly. Saying so publicly indicates EXTREME discomfort or distress over the situation. I think we must pause and get perma-subs for China and India. Yes it sucks, but Inca can't do it, that seems crystal clear IMO.

...Turkicize...

Now that's a keeper term if I ever heard one!

[Russia (DoE)]

Originally Posted by Inca (DoE)
...Turkicize...
Now that's a keeper term if I ever heard one!

Yeah! That was really good.

ANd right in the spot!

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

Sorry to be double-triple posting but I have a suggestion. Maybe one of the smaller, or lower rank civs would like to switch to a better civ like China or India, then we can look for subs (or just one sub) for all the lower ranked civs while the game continues, instead of having to pause because the game is missing two great powers at war with each other.

For example, Mongolia could take over China, and Mali could take over India. Then we could look for one person to handle Mongolia, Mali, and Zulu. It might be fun to run 3 smaller nations, maybe even more fun than running 1 big 1. They could be the Pan-African-Asian coalition or something like that... who knows

[OzzyKP]

I like the idea of moving up. Especially for Mongolia.

[Russia (DoE)]

Hmm... I dont think it is too nice to treat the lower- ranked civs in such a way as they are sentenced to rule their suposedly "painful" nations. I think any of the lower rank civs are playing the game with dignity and I am not sure how I was going to react if somene is treting me like I need a charity.

Here is the time to ask - if Mongolia and Mali can be at the rank they are, what so much is India complaining for?

[Inca (DoE)]

Turkey, I'm okay playing for a few more turns, but when it comes time to decide if I should hit "raze city" or "keep city" I am going to be having problems, and if this decision has to play out multiple times, well, that's not something I really want to decide on. I decided to sub for a short while so we could get the game moving again while a proper sub was found. I can still do that (for a couple days), but very soon the situation's going to be such that no very-temporary sub should be in the position I'll be in. I'm giving you all a heads up that, okay, yes, I'm not comfortable at all subbing when those decisions need to be made. And regarding what I said to Arabia, well, it's true and doesn't really need to be hidden: I can't make any plans out of about 5 or 10 turns, so threatening anyone with consequences that aren't immediate is just me running my mouth as a sub. I guess it's not really appropriate in any way, I've just been in a talkative mood lately

To the "moving on up to the east side" idea. It's up to the lower ranked players. But then if we can't find a proper sub for China, how are we going to find one for a (no offense) Zulu nation? If no one wants to step into a major power's shoes who's about to go on a domination rampage, what's a bottom-half civ sitting on the sidelines going to manage to attract?

That said, I'll long-term sub (take over completely basically) for a bottom-third civ if it means I can do some crazy tin-pot dictator stuff with it -which basically means somewhat trashing it- without qualms, promising to not use it to my Incan advantage, or really anyone's advantage unless compelled in a very in-character way that's at least somewhat publicly shown in the story thread.

[Arabia2 (doe)]

I wrote that long post, then it was lost, not gonna write it again

Just few things: Agree with ottomans that many things belong to the story board, but also there are some which can not be discussed there, because it would be too artificial (and also too easily ignored.. :/ ). The measured war rule is one of them. And for me the measured war rule not only means that the loser doesn't lose too much, but also that one should not start a war (or at least don't cause any harm) if there is 0 challenge in it. No matter if it was convenient, logical or just interesting.
There is an old debate about how one should use his power in the game. We can agree that it is stupid to attack a strong nation's ally and don't expect their intervention, but it is also bad if that superpower tries to control everything. (in the current situation Inca and China are not even allies).

[Inca (DoE)]

Took China's turn. The die will be thrown on the next one, it seems. India, first move, perhaps it will be successful in repelling the advancing Chinese hordes...

[Ottoman Empire (DoE)]

@ Russia - My point is not to insult or give charity to the lower ranked civ leaders. My point is that if Mongolia skips a turn, the game goes on and no one notices, but for China and India, the game must be paused or the game is a farce. That is why we need active players to take over for them NOW, and it just can't be Inca, because he is conflicted about pressing the war against India.

To the "moving on up to the east side" idea. It's up to the lower ranked players. But then if we can't find a proper sub for China, how are we going to find one for a (no offense) Zulu nation? If no one wants to step into a major power's shoes who's about to go on a domination rampage, what's a bottom-half civ sitting on the sidelines going to manage to attract?

Exactly why I said maybe we find one player to take over 2-4 of the lowest rank civs so that their leaders, who are still actually active players, can be free to focus on running the higher ranked ones.

Frankly the game should be paused now without Inca taking anymore turns for China, because Inca has basically announced that hes absolutely not willing to raze any Indian cities. So basically he is intentionally fighting with one hand tied behind his back... that has an effect on everything.

I wont go into why or how it affects everything, because that just spoils things more, but IMO the point of a sub is for the civ to be run QUIETLY, not for every move of the subbed-civ to be announced and debated and approved, because of the sub's discomfort with their role.

Everytime we are reminded that a civ is being subbed, it undermines the game, because it makes the game seem like a farce. the point of having a sub, is so that the rest of the players can continue to enjoy the game smoothly without interruption, and without being constantly reminded that one of the civs is a farce.

Yes subbing for another civ while you are already playing is a burden. It is uncomfortable, because you don't want to mess up, or be accused of abusing your position, etc., but that is the point. The sub takes on the burden silently, so that the rest of us can just continue to enjoy the game.