Destiny of Empires [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread]

[Russia (DoE)]

Well, I did not knew that.

The Turks kept saying me about some interaction with the Arabs and I though because Damascus is in the biggest danger, they are concentrated there. The Turks obviously though Russia is communicating more with the Arabs and at the end when we get no response for some time, I checked what is going on with Arabia and the first time I saw they are not logging, I PMed Robert Plomp some 2-3 days ago.

[Inca (DoE)]

Last time they logged in was 1525, so that's 20T without a login. Yup.

Well, if they haven't played in 20T, then the courthouses are going to go!

Still not going to discuss their ongoing trades for the sake of confidentiality, although I can now see how it may be an issue with others. Not sure how to proceed with that...

[Germany (DoE)]

Ah, you mean that it was only for 10 turns and now when the player is missing from 14-15 turns I am just keeping the deals not canceling them?

If this was the case, why on Earth I would make a noise that my ally is missing? For me would be best if I just keep silent, so the money flow and flow.

Well, I see you as an honest player who wouldn't mind reassuring us.

It is 21 turns btw.

[Russia (DoE)]

Ah, you mean that it was only for 10 turns and now when the player is missing from 14-15 turns I am just keeping the deals not canceling them?

If this was the case, why on Earth I would make a noise that my ally is missing? For me would be best if I just keep silent, so the money flow and flow.

[Aztecs (DoE)]

The definition for gifts / deals should be: would they also be done in RL ?

Interest deals, etc, diplomatic: YES
Robbing the civ of money, progress, options: NO

[Germany (DoE)]

And I just checked PYT - Arabia has NOT played for 21 turns.

[Germany (DoE)]

I'm not arguing against gold gifting by players in the dynamic swing of the game but if a civ that is not playing turns (perhaps rudderless) has a deal in place of say gifting 300 gpt to another player I think that maybe we can discuss it?

[Inca (DoE)]

RE gold trades:
Even if there were such trades, I think most players have had such trades, and they can be quite profitable with interest (or non-monetary agreements), so it hardly would make it indicative of a subservience, as I wouldn't know what the actual terms were, just the in-game facts. Let's say Arabia was gifting Russia 2000 GPT, but had agreed in private to pay that for 10T in order to repay an older loan. All I would see was the 2000GPT, not that it was repayment (or a strung-out payment for units, or payment for protection, or payment for information, etc, etc). One more reason it wouldn't be proper (or definitive in any way) to give up that info.

As far as I know it was just kicked to AI for a seconds, so you can take control of it. I dont know if you made the trick of pausing, kicking, claiming and then unpausing the game, so the AI wont screw things. If this was made, there is not even a second in which the Arabs were controlled by the AI.

Okay, I saw it was brought back from AI control in the PYT screen, and the builds don't make much sense to me, but then Arabia might be thinking something I'm not, obviously having been at their position much longer than I... The builds are half-way done, so if the perm player did that, I won't change it obviously since the situation doesn't warrant it.

[Russia (DoE)]

I feel the (my) courthouses comment was over the line a bit, but it seems a bit like an AI play so I wanted clearing up over how long the civ has been under AI control, as it will determine whether I continue the builds or not.

As far as I know it was just kicked to AI for a seconds, so you can take control of it. I dont know if you made the trick of pausing, kicking, claiming and then unpausing the game, so the AI wont screw things. If this was made, there is not even a second in which the Arabs were controlled by the AI.

[Russia (DoE)]

Can you just allay fears that Arabia, seemingly rudderless for much of its time, is not giving significant gold per turn to Russia?

As close allies, we did exchanged gold and other valuable resources. Until now, Arabia did provided me with some gold, which I dont know if the sub will continue to do so.

And what is wrong in this? I will just say, without giving away further details, that I was and am giving gold and other things to allies, friends and friends-in-progress regularly helping those who need help or winning the sympathies of someone.

I know that the Vikings were providing you with gold too. Is that any problem?

There are many and complicated diplomatic ties in the world about which you dont know at all, and you cant judge how active they were and what they achieved, so I found calling Arabia "rudderless" rude.

[Inca (DoE)]

Can you just allay fears that Arabia, seemingly rudderless for much of its time, is not giving significant gold per turn to Russia?

Forgive me if my previous openness over play indicated that I would reveal the secrets of this civ to the entire board. I won't. I was open solely to allay concerns that I would play this partially and fully assist Russia(I am not, and am teching towards a useful infrastructure tech, if that helps). I would not want my sub discussing my trade deals with the board, even if in the negative (eg, "there are no such deals"), so I won't do that to Arabia.

I am building infrastructure and defensive garrison units, and I am not concluding new trade/gold deals unless given permission by the perm player. That is the beginning and end of my openness.

I feel the (my) courthouses comment was over the line a bit, but it seems a bit like an AI play so I wanted clearing up over how long the civ has been under AI control, as it will determine whether I continue the builds or not.

[Germany (DoE)]

Speaking of dogpiles and punitive captures of territory... I lost four of my oldest and most important cities, my capitol, 3-4 wonders, and HALF of my economy. Worse yet I never backstabbed anyone.

Not backstabbed but you did operate on the basis of a highly manipulative plan against Neander

Your losses may have been mine...

[Robert]

game down, waiting for Russia to tell me when he can play.
I'm gone for 1,5 hours from now.

[England (DoE)]

So, I am as a matter of fact attacked by:
- Russia (biggest civ)
- Ottomans
- Arabia
- Mali

in other words: all my neighbors except the Zulu (who will most probably invade me tomorrow)

Is it really needed that a small nation like Israel is being dogpiled by that many enemies?
In an attack that include two betrayals?
I'm fine, I'll just contiue and it al fits perfect in all holocaust scenarios, but is this really diplo gaming?

For those who are keeping count:
- Ekron is razed
- Hebron has been conquered and lost 70% of it's buildings
- Nain is occupied by the Turks
- Jerusalem is razed (holy city)
- Sidon was given to the Mali under threath of war
- Tel Aviv (capital) is under siege by Russia and Ottomans (rifles vs muskets)
- Ai is going to be taken by the Turks in 2 turns (3 rifles vs 1 maceman)

That leaves me with 3 original cities in a couple of turns.
Please just continue, it would be a shame to abort it now. Now just finish it.

I'm just acting surprised that the Russians need Arabian mescenaries to invade Israel.
It's a bit as if the USA needs French troops when they invade Denmark or something.

Speaking of dogpiles and punitive captures of territory... I lost four of my oldest and most important cities, my capitol, 3-4 wonders, and HALF of my economy. Worse yet I never backstabbed anyone.

[Germany (DoE)]

Arabia really isn't at war with Israel at present as far as the sub is concerned. Just thought I'd clear that up. I'm certainly not going to play loose with someone else's civ like that.

Can you just allay fears that Arabia, seemingly rudderless for much of its time, is not giving significant gold per turn to Russia?

Russia has 900 gpt and maybe that is good playing but I just wondered if some of it is regularly gifted.

ACE allies do bits of this in short bursts but each player is 100% committed to their own civ.

Forgive me if I have a wrong interpretation here but as I say just need my fears put to rest.