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Sorry guys. Life so busy that I missed last turn, so I have moved first in this one. Hope that works ok for everyone. So from now on I'll move first and my many enemies (including Rome which is supplying riflemen armies to the Vikings!) can move second.
Babylon, you just double-moved, which is fine, life happens, this doesn't bother me.
However, you ROASTED me, accusing and name-calling me for doing the EXACT SAME THING! That does bother me. I have also missed turns during this war, I have a job that some days allows me to have time at home, and other days (like today) does not. So why is it no big deal for you?
On top of that, you are acting as if this war isn't fair. I am a tiny civ, who is acting alone, despite your claims otherwise. Those riflemen, do you think they were gifted to me? No I traded a lot to get them.
I don't want to start an argument, only put everything in context.
This is a game, a GREAT game, lots of fun, let's just keep it that way, for FUN.
I did not double-move. You will see my post just a couple above yours, and if you look at PYT stats, you will see that I missed a turn completely. So what happened was:
Turn X -
Viking Moves
Babylon Moves
Turn X+1
Viking Moves
Turn X+2
Babylon Moves
Viking Moves
So every move by Babylon was preceded by one by Viking. The moves kept alternating - there is no double moving. Just a swap in the turn order because I missed turn X+1.
A double move would be if it went Babylon, Vikings, Vikings, Babylon which it did once, by mistake, which I questioned (I really don't think I called anyone any names) and we sorted it.
All of that is an out of character matter, in which we all try to be helpful and reasonable since the point of the game is for us all to have fun.
Babylon - in character, in game - has no obligation to be fair, truthful or reasonable! Of course Babylon is, and everything ever said by Babylon in character is true, unlike the lies of the Sumarians. Yes you are right that Babylon in character in game is asserting a particular narrative - it is being attacked by four nations, that the Sumarians have deceived the Vikings and is using them as its puppet. You are trying to assert another one - that you are a tiny nation acting alone. Other civs will make up their own minds, and of course other civs are putting out their own narratives as well (like Sumaria's above which included lots of things Babylon thought were far-fetched like the Sumarians being pacifists!), mainly of course in secret one-to-one conversations. Just like in the real world of diplomacy, politics and international relations, in character in game there are many competing interpretations of the same events with leaders spinning for their own purposes. Thats the fun of a diplo-game, although it can be frustrating too. Out of character, though, when we are back to 13 folks trying to play a game together, I think we do all try to be reasonable, even if occasionally things can get heated.
Last edited by Babylon (DoD); September 30, 2010, 03:23.
Sadly no. If he is not on the forum then I don't know where he is.
China is in a perilous position so somebody needs to babysit them rather than AI or inaction.
I was doing a pretty good job (imho) of starting to turn them around the last time China disappeared. Then the original player came back. I wasn't sure he was back at first, and logged in after him once or twice and already he was starting to undo my good work.
Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012
When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah
I was doing a pretty good job (imho) of starting to turn them around the last time China disappeared. Then the original player came back. I wasn't sure he was back at first, and logged in after him once or twice and already he was starting to undo my good work.
Please Ozzy, repeat your good work! When you took charge the Celts were dead meat as were the Mayans but China need not be. It is still a viable nation and can prosper as long as it can defend itself. I give no ID secrets away by saying that I know exactly what China has and what China is facing. If a really good player does not look after them they will disappear faster than a puppy-dogs' tail wags.
..For centuries I was sleeping, but I was awaken from my dreams among the other Gods.. I saw my pharaoes were failing and new threats arising from all sides, evil plots, huge armies and a red plague in the far...
We always lived in the desert, endured the barbarian invasions knowing that in time we will be able to turn the whole world into desert..our desert.. and then our enemies will be gone.. but now in my visions I was warned.. we must wait no longer...
"Barbarians from the outer lands.. accept us as your master and you may live, defy us and you will be dead. there will be no mercy.."
First the treacherous Rome, who tried to kill our people..they can't learn their lesson.. after failing two times they gathered a new army and trying to plot against us .. If we want to wield wars in the far we can't allow them to threat us..ever again..
Please Ozzy, repeat your good work! When you took charge the Celts were dead meat as were the Mayans but China need not be. It is still a viable nation and can prosper as long as it can defend itself. I give no ID secrets away by saying that I know exactly what China has and what China is facing. If a really good player does not look after them they will disappear faster than a puppy-dogs' tail wags.
I'm tempted. But I'm also starting to lose interest in Civ4 now that 5 is out. With the new girl, my free time is increasingly limited, so perhaps taking on more game responsibility isn't a good thing. I'm skipping turns left and right with the Celts and with DoE.
Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012
When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah
ooc: people, I don't know what's going on. I log in and see that all my deals with about 6 or 7 nations are broken, including China. That can only be explained by the apostolic palace or the united nations. I have also lost my main religious city with the shrine to Egypt, without war. All unist expelled. This can also only be explained by the apostolic palace.
I have missed any of these resolutions though!
(Or I would obviously have vetoed them out! Switching cities can only with the AP, and only if the city is a city of that religion)
The UN can stop all deals, but then all nations must have stopped to deal with me, which they did not do all. Only a selection of the civs.
Lastly, I can hardly believe that all those nations in the world would support that the 2nd biggest religious shrine would go to Egypt. (unless Egypt holds that much of the votes)
Anyway, can someone please explain me what is going on.
Why do you think that Rome was building an army against you?
Rome failed to invade Egypt and we paid for that. When the war was over, we vowed to never do it again.
Many nations approached us to invade Egypt again, among which the Hindustani. But we refused.
They urged us because we had the 'moral plight to fight you', they said. But I, the eternal leader of Rome, said that we had done our best. We were indeed building up an army again. Not to fight you but to defend our nation. We are surrounded by all the biggest nations on earth, the Egyptians, the Gondorians and the Sumerians. Many of these nations were in wars. Huge stacks of doom were positioned near our borders. We had to counter that, and that's why we started to build up an army again, which is now about your size. Never did we position much troops near your lands.
In the meanwhile the Hindustani kept contacting us, first we had to attack the Sumerians to help them. Then we had to attack the Vikings to help again the Hindustani. Then the Hindustani promised us to 'join us against you' if we would 'help them against Sumer and the Vikings'. We continued to say 'no' to these warmongering Hindustani.
Now I see that you have gathered a huge army next to my borders. My army is coming to that same border where the armies will clash. Two same sizes armies. Our nation has the biggest number of citizen and the biggest number of cities. I will draft all young men in my empire against you. If we will go down, then we will take you with us. I failed to invade you when my army was twice the size of your army. What makes you think that you can win this war if our armies are equal?
You have taken our most important religious city through unexplainable forms of magic.
I insist that you return it to Rome at once. If not then the drafting will start immediately.
There is no un resolution which would give me your city. You must had accepted to give it to me via trade.. I put it into my msg, but did not expect you would accept it, It wasn't serious and I did not demand that city (I would had taken it though by force if you refused my offer)... When I saw the score change first I thought maybe you did give it to me so you could force me to a 10 turn peace untill you gather more soldiers, but if it was unintentional then Robert pls stop the game and reload Rome's turn because it wouldnt go well if we continued this way
Btw I gave the city back and to my surprise I was able to declare war (I thought it's impossible after making these deals). Yet my armies havent moved, but they should in this turn. Rome ignored my offers about avoiding the war, but it is also possible that they somehow skipped my msgs.. like how they accepted to give a city to me and apparently did not see that there was even a msg..
I think the best solution is to reload Rome's turn to be the most fair. We could continue as things currently are, the city is given back, the defenders still can go back into the city before i can reach it, but they had lost their fortification bonus.
Rome. Your utter lies are sad. Yes you see yourself as the weaver of magic, the deceiver of nations for your own benefit. Spew forth such dung if you wish and if you think anyone hears you, but kindly leave Hindustan out of it. You know, as do most nations for we do not weave spells in darkness but speak the truth in the light, many know that years ago we declared that we would have no more of the anti-Egyptian alliance you organised. It does not take a prophet to see that it was in revenge for that that you supplied the Vikings with the riflemen to use against me, which instead they used to massacre and burn to the ground a celtic city.
We were once friends. In your first war against Egypt we, alone of all other nations, stood alongside you. But since the Sumarians betrayed us by seizing a island we left your alliance, and since you supplied the Vikings with rifles we have turned our backs on you. Even so, some warmth towards Rome remained, but for how long if you spew forth such lies about us like in your panic. Shame upon you.
Last edited by Babylon (DoD); October 2, 2010, 16:55.
Yes you are right that Babylon in character in game is asserting a particular narrative - it is being attacked by four nations, that the Sumarians have deceived the Vikings and is using them as its puppet. You are trying to assert another one - that you are a tiny nation acting alone. Other civs will make up their own minds, and of course other civs are putting out their own narratives as well (like Sumaria's above which included lots of things Babylon thought were far-fetched like the Sumarians being pacifists!), mainly of course in secret one-to-one conversations. Just like in the real world of diplomacy, politics and international relations, in character in game there are many competing interpretations of the same events with leaders spinning for their own purposes. Thats the fun of a diplo-game, although it can be frustrating too. Out of character, though, when we are back to 13 folks trying to play a game together, I think we do all try to be reasonable, even if occasionally things can get heated.
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