The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

[bamf226]

The fair paly vote sounds odd to me.. I dont really understand how it will work except when we use it as a tool of punishment.

If I notice a civ going above and beyond in gameplay, I'm going to give points for it. If I see somebody being an ass, I'm deducting points. If you post 17 stories a day, points deducted. Fair play is going to come into focus when war times hit. Are demands for ceasefire appropriate? Does the person continue bombarding the other civ instead of talking about peace?

- I think vouchers should be tradeable as they were in btp- maybe we could ad an extra thing: voucher can only be given away if it's used up in the same trade.

Nooooooo. I'd rather push a thumbtack under my nail than deal with the hassle of policing voucher trades. That was a serious pain in the last diplogame.

[mzprox]

Nooooooo. I'd rather push a thumbtack under my nail than deal with the hassle of policing voucher trades. That was a serious pain in the last diplogame.

Well.. if you read the rules the vouchers are still in however their use is more limited and i belive the old system could help the less advanced civs while forbiding the trade eliminates that possibility.

[bamf226]

I'm ok with trading techs with a voucher. I give you a tech, I lose a voucher. I am quite against I give you a voucher and a tech for a tech. That was just too complicated to deal with.

[mzprox]

I'm ok with trading techs with a voucher. I give you a tech, I lose a voucher. I am quite against I give you a voucher and a tech for a tech. That was just too complicated to deal with.

Who would do that? if i give a tech and receive a tech then both of us used up one voucher. What I'm suggesting that we should leave in the option to give your voucher to someone if that player use it to give you a tech for that voucher- it's actually a gift. the player who had the voucher receives a free tech. Obviously it would help the less advanced players because the advanced ones could use up their vouchers for 1 to 1 trade while those who cant offer any worthy tech still could have the vouchers and the chance to receive techs.
If we state that the traded vouchers must be used up immediately then it cannot be exploited. ( I did not really liked those trades in btp where one player gave two vouchers and received a single tech for them-1 voucher to cover the trade, the other was a free to use one for the more advanced player, potentially making him more advanced while the trade cost him nothing- I think this is the reason why Robert wants them to be untradeable this time, but imo we should keep the option)

[St Jon]

Arabia; please just use the Apolyton PM system. Otherwise other players also have to register an anonymous mail account.

Pinchak has pm'ed me that he is abandoning this game. He dislikes the rules and thinks it's too complex. I'm not going to try to convince him to stay with us.

So we need a new player.
Ozzy, I'm going to let you find out which civ Pinchak was. Can you sub for him for the time being?

Everyone: please look around for a perm player! It would be cool if we can find someone before turn 2 starts!

I'm in and will stay in, barring AoG, but I think the numbers of P/W's and rather overly complex rules are a downer. I would like to have Pinchak in the game as he is both a competent player and a good contributor to the Story Thread.

If he will not play then can we have a genuinely ANON sub rather than a publicly disclosed one? I.E. Can it be solely be done by PM and not by answer to a Thread that we all can read. Respect for ANON really does need to be observed and real ID's on the Story Thread do need to be deleted. Likewise, real ID's should always be used on the ORG Thread.

Regardless, I still want to know how to change all of these frigging P/W's to the only one I ever use! I am a very old man now and cannot hold much in my memory and so will be a pushover in the game but I will struggle yet further if I have to try and remember more than the Civ I am playing yet alone different P/W's - I will find it hard enough to recall my DoC username.

[Robert]

mzprox, the current rules allow:
- techs to be given away (by giving a tech to someone)
- techs to be traded for techs (by trading a tech for a tech)

If I'm correct you ask for:
- trading a tech for a voucher (civ x gives tech and loses 1 voucher, civ y gives 1 voucher, which is being gained by civ x)

I've never intended this rule to forbid that, but I can see that it does so though.
I wanted to eliminate voucher trades for cities, money, end of war treaties, 2 vouchers for 1 tech, etc. etc.

If the others agree I can include the option to trade a tech for a voucher.

[Robert]

St Jon:
- you can change your apolyton password in your profile somewhere, I think.
- you can change your game password by ending your turn, then retire, thenp pick your civ again and set a new password.
I don't think there are more passwords then that.

Regarding the anonymous sub, we don't know which civ is being played by Pinchak, only Ozzy knows. Ozzy will tell the new player, so we will know who the new player is, but not what civ he's playing.

Yes, some rules are complex, unfortunately we learned from BtP that sometimes more detailed rules are needed.
If you have suggestions for making the rules less complex (but still covering everything it covers right now) please say so.

I can start to remove the ooc judgement from the rule list and place it in a secion on it's own.

I think that both anon and non anon accounts should be allowed to post here. Sometimes you want to say something ooc without giving up our identity. (like: "I'm going to be away for a week" may give away who you are)

[Pinchak]

more detailed rules are needed.

Clear and simple rules are needed, not necessarily more rules or more detailed rules. Furthermore, they need to be applied consistently. Lastly, there needs to be accountability.

I hope my leaving does not cause a problem. I truly hope the game is a fun one for all involved, but IMO the lessons learned from BtP are not addressed in DoC. Therefore, I have elected to spare myself the stress.

[Rasputin]

i think allowing a tech for avoucher trade will only force the larger more advanced civs t odmenad the voucher for each trade as it occured last game and therefore bascially mean the weaker civs will not be able to gain gifts and there by advance abit, they wil llose their Vouchers and be unable to trade whilst the stronger civs will still be able to trade.

Gifting a tech to a weaker civ should not cost anyone a voucher. only trading techs.

[Black Knight 427]

Gifting a tech to a weaker civ should not cost anyone a voucher. only trading techs.

That is just a good way to help larger civs to control weaker civs.

[mzprox]

i think allowing a tech for avoucher trade will only force the larger more advanced civs t odmenad the voucher for each trade as it occured last game and therefore bascially mean the weaker civs will not be able to gain gifts and there by advance abit, they wil llose their Vouchers and be unable to trade whilst the stronger civs will still be able to trade.

Gifting a tech to a weaker civ should not cost anyone a voucher. only trading techs.

Thats why i'm saying that the gifted voucher must be used up in the same trade so the advanced civs cant gain voucher from these kind of trades (they still have the right to ask for something else,)
Here are all the possible tech trades:
-1 to 1 trade, both civ pays 1 voucher
-"gifting tech" for a voucher. The receiver gives his voucher to the advanced civ for a tech. For the advanced civ this trade cost nothing, the other gets a tech and loses a voucher (this is that i think should be in but the current wording of the rules forbids)
-gifting/selling a tech-this is allowed according to our rules. (voucher=give away tech so as long as you have vouchers you can use them for anything you want ) players should be carefull though. If a weaker civ gifts a tech to a stronger player it's suspicious.. maybe we should even forbid it.
-demanding a tech; connects to the previous point. in one point of view it's the tool to make strong civs even stronger, on the other hand paying with a tech could be a reasonable "price" to pay after a lost war for example.
-gifting/selling a voucher: this is forbiden. you cant give away vouchers-in my suggestion we should be able to give away, but only if you immediately receive a tech for it-so it gets used up in the same trade.

-do I miss anything?



Free tech gifting is a very bad idea, setting up your allies with free techs could really alter the game. (imagine the effects in btp: I (Japan) was a smaller civ than Greece so they could had gifted me every tech they had, as we were allied i could just give up researching altogether.. what's the point if i can get the tch for free? Then poor Russia should have had to receive the techs from an other big guy to have the chance against me.. etc etc.. )

[Linus]

Hey guys

Hey guys, saw a topic on a different forum about needing another player.

If you still need one, and wouldnt mind someone who has never played a diplo game before, i would be more than happy to play and learn as i go along. Please get back to me if im in or not.

[Rasputin]

and the alarm bells ring whnever a Setleer asks to paly...

[Black Knight 427]

Hey guys, saw a topic on a different forum about needing another player.

If you still need one, and wouldnt mind someone who has never played a diplo game before, i would be more than happy to play and learn as i go along. Please get back to me if im in or not.

Welcome, dont mind the alarms and please pm Robert Plomp to see if the spot is still open.

[Robert]

Hey Linus, thanks for applying! Unfortunately for you Hercules signed up a few hours before you.
I'll add you to the first position of our reserve list and approach you if a new spot will open or whenever we start a new game.
Thanks again!

@mzprox,
- Regarding the vouchers, I'm fine with allowing giving away techs. I'll start a vote about that. according to the rules 66% of the votes must be in favour to change the rules after the game has started. Reading the responses to what you said that'll most probably not be a problem.

- regarding the story and diplo categories, I think that story telling and diplomacy are two very different things. One is public, one is mostly behind the scenes. Both require completely different skills. It's up to the players to determine how they vote.
Civs that have diplomatic bounds with more civs will gain more votes in that category.
I see no support for your case from others. As soon as such support comes up I'll organise a vote for you.

- I'll explain the Game Attitude category more detailed in the opening post.

- I'll move the entire ooc-conflict solution system from the rules to a different category in the opening post.

- I think adding 2 techs per era will only bring more complications to the game. I'll try to keep an eye on the era's players are in and announce it when we passed into the next era. Please pm me if you think that my era info is wrong.

VOTE:
Do you agree with the following additions/changes to rule 4: (underlined part)
- 4a. Trading away a tech costs 1 voucher. All players get 8 vouchers. Vouchers cannot be traded away for anything but techs. (this means that civs can give away 8 techs, receive 8 techs for their vouchers, trade 8 techs for 8 techs or a combination of these options.)

Please vote 'agree', 'disagree' or 'abstain' in the next 48 hours.
If 66% of the not-abstaining votes agrees the rule will be updated.

Please vote using your NOT ANONYMOUS ACCOUNT!

If you support mzprox in any of his other suggestions, please say so. If there's enough support I'll organise another vote.