The Dance of Civilizations [Diplo Game] [Organization Thread Pt1]

[Native America (DoC)]

If a Tech is traded then either the 'Granter' or 'Receiver' must pay for it via a Voucher. Absolutely straightforward as far as I can see.

Is this right. I understood that the receiver of a tech (aside from the age/era rules, free tech exchange) always pays a voucher.

So if I contact you and offer tech AAA as a gift, it would cost you one voucher and cost me no voucher.

But say, late game, I have 5 vouchers left and you have just 1 or 2 vouchers left and I would like you to change to another tech path so as to speed tech advance between us, would I be able to send you the pre-req tech and pay a voucher (on your behalf) that would result in reducing my vouchers to 4?

That option like the current tech exchange procedure requires honest reporting of tech trading.

[Persia (DoC)]

Why would I trade Monarchy for nothing?

Well, maybe you wouldn't, and that's what you would have answered if you had understood the deal.

I, for example, are very willing to trade techs to Britannia for free. (= Brit giving 1 voucher in return)
We have already done 2 such trades and I would certainly have traded Monarchy to them as well. (I get it next turn).

For me giving techs to Britannia is a form of diplomacy.
So it seems like it is a confusion over the rules.
I don't think this would have happened if you would have worshipped Hastog instead of the unknown god of Islam!
Convert to Hastogianism now before it's too late! I'm willing to send you some doomionaries in exchange for 1 voucher!

[Orb (DoC)]

I have to agree with korea on this. Allowing a reload would bo setting a dangerous president for the rest of the game.

[mzprox]

A voucher should be traded the same as a tech.

Let's see this example. You expected that in the end of the trade you gain a voucher. In that case Britannia should had payed two vouchers for a single tech and for you it wouldnt had cost anything but a plain gain of a voucher. There were trades like this in BtP and some of us didnt liked them because they didn't help the weaker civs too much but creates an opportunity to make the stronger even more advanced.

For me it seems as if you were decived with this trade because you didnt know the rules, I wonder if Britannia knew it and if yes why they asked a tech for "nothing", maybe they thought you are so close friends . But whatever happened you can just make an agreement to get something in return or write an ingame story how they "steal" the tech.. One thing for sure: this 'trade' didnt really make Brittania relatively stronger since they lost a voucher for this tech. They could have got it from someone else for the same voucher and the limited number of vouchers means that each civ can get 8 techs in the whole game.

[St Jon]

If a Tech is traded then either the 'Granter' or 'Receiver' must pay for it via a Voucher. Absolutely straightforward as far as I can see.

If an error has been made then tough luck and be more careful in future!

Can we please unpause the game now and let things keep flowing?

[Arabia (DoC)]

Ok I'm going to make this as simple as I can:

1) I received a trade notice from Britannia asking for Monarchy with nothing in exchange

2) I declined the offer - and sent him within the game "what do you have to offer?"

3) I received back in the game "a voucher".

4) I came back with ok and gave him monarchy for what I would think would be a voucher. "Thats a deal"

Why would I trade Monarchy for nothing?


But to answer your questions:

a. Do you agree that we are following the rules?
b. If (a) is a 'yes', then the next question is: do you agree with this rule or not?

I do agree to the rules now that I understand them however nonsenisical they appear.

c. if (a) is a 'no', then please explain how the rule has been broken
d. If (a) is 'yes' and (b) is 'no', then please explain why you disagree and how we could improve it to fit your needs.


A voucher should be traded the same as a tech.

[St Jon]

I agree. Make a mistake then you live with it or where do we stop?

[Korea (DoC)]

Ok, here's the deal:
1. I suggest we reload for Russia, I haven't seen anybody objecting to that, so I guess everybody is fine with that.

2. We need some "cold turkey time" for Arabia. (see Dictionary of Terms for explanation).
I have saved and closed the pitboss for now. I'd say, let's wait 24h at least. (or till Arabia says he's ok with the situation)

Arabia, I understand that you don't like this.
Please answer:
a. Do you agree that we are following the rules?
b. If (a) is a 'yes', then the next question is: do you agree with this rule or not?
c. if (a) is a 'no', then please explain how the rule has been broken
d. If (a) is 'yes' and (b) is 'no', then please explain why you disagree and how we could improve it to fit your needs.

If you agree that the rule has been followed, can we then proceed the game and discuss the rule in the meantime.

i glad we have the nerve to stop the game this time and i for one want to applaud robert for doing this, it casues so many heartaches in BtP when game continued.

now for my thoughtso n the TWO issues.

1. Russia - Sorry it is a mistake make a story about it. Dont do it again. This could set a precedent for asking for mistakes to be unmade. If i atack the worng stack. A barb takes one of my undefended citys. etc etc. Mistakes are not worthy of reloads. In my opinion

2. Arabia. The trade you describe every one is doing. You give a tech to another nation they use one of their vouchers. Result is you dont use any of your vouchers. If hte nation you traded with didnt agree to use of their own vouchers then YOU must pay the voucher. Simple as that.

No reloads needed.

No changes needed.

[Robert]

Ok, here's the deal:
1. I suggest we reload for Russia, I haven't seen anybody objecting to that, so I guess everybody is fine with that.

2. We need some "cold turkey time" for Arabia. (see Dictionary of Terms for explanation).
I have saved and closed the pitboss for now. I'd say, let's wait 24h at least. (or till Arabia says he's ok with the situation)

Arabia, I understand that you don't like this.
Please answer:
a. Do you agree that we are following the rules?
b. If (a) is a 'yes', then the next question is: do you agree with this rule or not?
c. if (a) is a 'no', then please explain how the rule has been broken
d. If (a) is 'yes' and (b) is 'no', then please explain why you disagree and how we could improve it to fit your needs.

If you agree that the rule has been followed, can we then proceed the game and discuss the rule in the meantime.

[Byzantium (DoC)]

No problem Russia. Though Mali is right - if you have a diplo screen you can't unpause it but nor can you reply to the diplo - a wierd 'bug', which is very annoying when you are caught in it!

[Russia (DoC)]

Game is now unpaused. Sorry for that, I just thought that if we reloaded the turn before it ended then it would be better...

you can pause/unpause the game by hitting the Pause/Break key on your keyboard

[Mali (DoC)]

you can unpause whenever you want...

i just wanted the possibility to change a big mistake and buy a little more time to discuss the matter before the turn progresses.

How does one go about unpausing the game. I'm stuck in a diplo screen and no matter what I do, I can't get out of it to take my turn. I can't even exit the game normally, so I hope my closing the game doesn't screw the server. Can an e-mail be sent once the unpause happens so the rest of us can take our turns. Might want to extend the turn about 5 hours as well.

[Mali (DoC)]

that Mr Mali is what life isa bout, Fair is only fair if it is fair to us as individuals.

My choose is to play a game i cant compete in or go look for alternatives.

What Diplo has become is not right or wrong, just suits diferent people.

What is your goal in competing? Are you trying to win the whole game? Are you trying for the most diplo points, story [points, etc. Are you trying not to be last. There are many goals you can shoot for.

[Russia (DoC)]

if not, I'm gonna have to find some way of agreeing with England and everyone else about how our tech trade went through and what the results were. some might say I "cheated" to get an extra trade. as said, a bit confusing.

Here is what happened.
England offered a deal of wheat for corn
I wasn't sure about it, so I declined and wanted to counteroffer with a tech trade.
Then a new screen pops up, England wanting to trade Calender for Construction and I hit accept offer when I thought I was offering a different trade. It would just be easier to cancel it out rather than make exception-rules and stuff. And it also gives me the (to me) very important chance to get the tech that I need.

[Black Knight 427]

As long as it is reloaded before russia accepted the trade and not any time after then I don't care.