A non-historical diplo game

[St Jon]

You mean in character? Not really just a few are polar oposites, and even they are pragmatic about their situation. Also we never said we would not allow custom factions (as long as they are balanced).


Also have you seen some of the story writting people have done for SMAC? Its amazing. If we go into SMAC/X we may attract some of that talent.

When I used to play on the old SMAC site - prior to Poly - we used to go all out for story-telling. No points as no such thing as Diplo but just great fun to put some meat onto the bones. But then always tried to do that with CtP as it is just so much more fun to have a 'living' leader rather than just plain Jon of the Irish. It's better that I want your City because you are an apostate sinner than I just want your Gold Mine!

[Heraclitus]

I can't get MOO2 to work in Vista

I can't figure out DosBox either.

DosBox is simple to work out under XP, does it clash with Vista?

[Heraclitus]

I'm still playing MOO2 multi time to time. (It's a dos install, using the 1.4 unofficial patch and DOSBOX) Btw I thought you were refering to the mmo2 civ4 mod (there is one). I dont think the original mmo2 game is good for diplogames

How close to finished is the mod?

Also I've never played MMO2 MP, are the diplomatic options too limited?

[Heraclitus]

All I would like to know is where I can get all these mods. They all sound like they could be fun.

Google is your friend.


They should be on CFC.

[Heraclitus]

When I used to play on the old SMAC site - prior to Poly - we used to go all out for story-telling. No points as no such thing as Diplo but just great fun to put some meat onto the bones. But then always tried to do that with CtP as it is just so much more fun to have a 'living' leader rather than just plain Jon of the Irish. It's better that I want your City because you are an apostate sinner than I just want your Gold Mine!

That sounds great, I wish I had a group that played like that... in any case why do you think SMAC is too hard to play as diplo? The diplomatic options aren't that limited (remember people played diplo with Civ2), the game itself is far from simple and the backstory is lots and lots of fun.


The only downside I can see is that uberplayers might completley stomp any newbies or people who haven't played SMAC in 8 years or more.
(a possible solution would be to give extra units to the "n00bs", and make it so that the "veterans" get a extra points bonuse for playing on "hard")

[mzprox]

How close to finished is the mod?

Also I've never played MMO2 MP, are the diplomatic options too limited?

I don't really know the mmo2 civ4 mod other than that it exists.

The diplomacy in moo2 is limited and the reason it's not really suited for diplogames is that it's a wargame, more so than civ4. ( I also did not like civ4 multi because it transforms to a different game where the goal is to rush the others before they rush you, but in moo2 there is no other way. Your entire strategy must be the way of destroying the others. Also with a few exceptions every game was decided after the first battle. It was nice playing for hours then our fleets met somewhere and usualy it was enough just to take a look at the ships to know the result of the game imediately )

[OzzyKP]

DosBox is simple to work out under XP, does it clash with Vista?

I think it installs ok (I think) but I can't wrap my head around dos. I haven't even looked at it in over 15 years, and I didn't fully get it back then either.

The only downside I can see is that uberplayers might completley stomp any newbies or people who haven't played SMAC in 8 years or more.
(a possible solution would be to give extra units to the "n00bs", and make it so that the "veterans" get a extra points bonuse for playing on "hard")

Well, that's not much different than Civ4. Our games have large ranges of talent levels. Maybe we'd just spice things up with SMAC where the formerly dominant players would be the newbies and vice-versa.

[Pinchak]

The diplomacy in moo2 is limited and the reason it's not really suited for diplogames is that it's a wargame, more so than civ4.

I tend to agree with you, although I think the diplomacy aspect would work just fine, the storytelling would be a bit harder to do.

[Heraclitus]

Well, that's not much different than Civ4. Our games have large ranges of talent levels. Maybe we'd just spice things up with SMAC where the formerly dominant players would be the newbies and vice-versa.

I don't think you understand just how much larger an issue that is with SMAC. There are people who have been playing and studying it since 1999.

The strategy guides alone should indicate just how much more tought has been put into beating SMAC than beating Civ4. Also SMAC since it is more complex is also less balanced.

[St Jon]

I don't think you understand just how much larger an issue that is with SMAC. There are people who have been playing and studying it since 1999.

The strategy guides alone should indicate just how much more tought has been put into beating SMAC than beating Civ4. Also SMAC since it is more complex is also less balanced.

I actually came back to Poly after 8 years to play SMAC/X, or at least see if anyone still did, not Civ.

There are still are a surprisingly large number of people who do still play but there are a number of difficulties as a Diplo.

It requires a CMN if played as PBEM and is too fast paced for on-line Diplo. Very hard to see how you could have a CMN who actually was playing as they need to set everything up and will know everything. It has a rigid Turn Order, you can change it in setup for geography of players but that's all, so one lazy player can ruin a whole game. It is always played Transcend at MP - doesn't have to be but that is convention - and is a much harder game than Civ. A good player will always win over an ordinary one so a few Rovers at the start won't help. The AI is better than Civ2/CtP and, for war, not far off Civ4. Concepts like 'Blind Reaserch' will really throw the inexperienced. The Factions are horrendously badly balanced and massively different skill levels are required.

It's a masterpiece of design - considering its' age - but will never work Diplo.

[Heraclitus]

So we Final Frontier or its Star Trek mod seem the best options? Ok, who is interested in either of those two please add his name to this list.

A list of people interested in either a
A)Final Frontier (a mod tha comes with civ BtS) or
B) Star Trek (a mod of FF)
diplo game (and which he would prefer):

1. Heraclitus (either A or B)

[Heraclitus]

I actually came back to Poly after 8 years to play SMAC/X, or at least see if anyone still did, not Civ.

There are still are a surprisingly large number of people who do still play but there are a number of difficulties as a Diplo.

It requires a CMN if played as PBEM and is too fast paced for on-line Diplo. Very hard to see how you could have a CMN who actually was playing as they need to set everything up and will know everything. It has a rigid Turn Order, you can change it in setup for geography of players but that's all, so one lazy player can ruin a whole game. It is always played Transcend at MP - doesn't have to be but that is convention - and is a much harder game than Civ. A good player will always win over an ordinary one so a few Rovers at the start won't help. The AI is better than Civ2/CtP and, for war, not far off Civ4. Concepts like 'Blind Reaserch' will really throw the inexperienced. The Factions are horrendously badly balanced and massively different skill levels are required.

It's a masterpiece of design - considering its' age - but will never work Diplo.

You say a few rovers wont change this, what about a few supply crawlers or heck even free former and colony pods?

Blind reasearch can be turned off in any case, and I think players unfamiliar with the tech tree won't hurt that much from it.

Also I already said custom factions can be employed, and in any case those who are skilled at the game can do the gentelmanly thing and pic the "hard" factions.

There are quite a few creative ways to make this work. Heck we could even give an alien faction (which from what I understand are overpowered) to least skilled player.


You mention one bad player ruining it for all, but the thing is if I remember right only 7 players can play anyway. Its far easier to find 7 dedicated players than 18 and I am sure we could if we really wanted to find a few who are.

[St Jon]

So we Final Frontier or its Star Trek mod seem the best options? Ok, who is interested in either of those two please add his name to this list.

A list of people interested in either a
A)Final Frontier (a mod tha comes with civ BtS) or
B) Star Trek (a mod of FF)
diplo game (and which he would prefer):

1. Heraclitus (either A or B)

Are they stable? Last thing you want is months of effort coming to nothing when a poorly written Mod falls over.

[Heraclitus]

The Final Frontier mod is as stable as the core game. It was released with BtS and has been balanced further by additional patches post-3.17 I think these where included in the latest patch of civ.


The Star Trek on the other hand I have no clue.

[St Jon]

You say a few rovers wont change this, what about a few supply crawlers or heck even free former and colony pods?

Blind reasearch can be turned off in any case, and I think players unfamiliar with the tech tree won't hurt that much from it.

Also I already said custom factions can be employed, and in any case those who are skilled at the game can do the gentelmanly thing and pic the "hard" factions.

There are quite a few creative ways to make this work. Heck we could even give an alien faction (which from what I understand are overpowered) to least skilled player.


You mention one bad player ruining it for all, but the thing is if I remember right only 7 players can play anyway. Its far easier to find 7 dedicated players than 18 and I am sure we could if we really wanted to find a few who are.

You are right about Custom Factions but if you use that you actually destroy one of the great things in the Game. I like Random as I would never choose Spartans or Believers - not a conqueror type of player - but if I draw them I just have to get on with it and change my game-style accordingly.

The Aliens are banned in most Games as they are way too strong and since they cannot even speak to humans at all for a fair while into the Game it's hard to conduct Diplo with them.

Research is always semi-blind as you cannot just plot a line to Iron Working as the Game will not allow it.

You cannot have a 'friendly' Spartan as the only chance they have is to crush all before them as soon as possible. They can never compete in Energy or Tech with Morgan or University and will be Probed out of existence pretty quickly unless they kick some serious ass on first contact.