Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread VI]

[Robert]

1 let's trust each other.
2 ozzy is also looking for a sub.
3 please no accusations, both ways.

[Pitboss Rome]

I have declared War with Rome whilst we were holding IG discussions both logged on by hitting the wrong key to chat with him! We corrected it but we lost our Trade Bonus. I was half-cut myself but neither of us asked for a re-load. Maya cannot use being pissed as an excuse. Spain gifted me an incorrect City but I just gifted it back next Turn - no-reload. Don't, please bring Maya into this as it is a red herring.

I think this is a good example from St Jon. Yes we didn't reload in these cases, but the people involved did not try to exploit the mistake IG. We IG corrected the mistake. So when Russia declared war on me by mistake, Rome didn't say 'ha, a good excuse to grab some russian territory' but instead we wrote a nice little story in which Rome said, never mind lets have peace again. This was not Rome's best option IG, but was the right thing to do because it was a clear mistake which needed correcting. Similarly with the Spain/Russia example. Folks didn't say 'ha, this city is better than the one I was meant to get so I'll keep it' but rather 'mistake, ok, next turn we correct it.'

So I still think that in this situation, the obvious answer is that the Spartans give the city back to Maya next turn eliminating the mistake.

[Pitboss Portugal]

Not trying to accuse anyone here, but i dislike the idea of having an enemy with some easy fribbies.

[OzzyKP]

Also I am also having a problem that you were the last to take your turn as Khmer. The turn flipped so now how would i know that you didn't move something before i log later in the new turn? Please explain.

Well if I didn't have to wait 36 hours for you to play your turn (and do all I can to respect the turn order) then I wouldn't be playing last. Please start playing your turn earlier. It is unfair to play your turn with two hours left on the timer when you are supposed to be moving first. I logged out as soon as the turn flipped and didn't move any units.

I also have to say that i have a problem you subbing for Khmer, many small civs are you vassals (Being the Metalheads) this is giving Khmer much more intel like (seeing more spots on the map, much bias due to being their close friends possible allies now with that continental military pact and better coordination)

I don't like it either, hopefully we can find a sub soon.

[Robert]

Ozzy: Portugal had technical problems, he didn't wait that long on purpose.
Portugal: Ozzy waited as long as possible, and the fact that he's the last player doesn't mean he'll sneaky make some moves at the beginning of the new turn.

[St Jon]

Don't rant Ozzy! Portugal has already accepted no re-load so there's no point in anyone losing their tempers over it.

[Pitboss Greece]

I didn't finsh my turn yet. I'm out of time, sorry, took me more time then I expected.

[Pitboss Rome]

Sounds ominous to me - with a cease-fire there are very few troops for you to move

I'm not able to play tonight but will first thing tomorrow. No problem for turn order etc. but sorry to those waiting for info on the much improve peace treaty proposal.

[Pitboss Rome]

Confessing my sins as only just having voted, I found it terribly difficult. Did other people?

Seriously I think 3 votes in each category are too few in this game as it is now. There are far more than 3 folks who have done brilliant story-telling (for example) who i want to acknowledge. As it is I can't and if feels like their efforts go unrewarded, which perhaps leads to people not bothering. What incentive is there in somedoing doing a bit of great story telling, if they know it is going to be swamped by the big story beasts? (OK there is incentive other than votes, I know, but even so).

In the next game, should we have more votes per category, or if that wasn't necessary in the early game, a sliding scale with move votes per category as the game progresses and nations are in contact with more nations.

[Robert]

We can also have a rating system instead of a voting system

Story telling: (1-10)
Belgium: 9
China: 5
Madagascar: 7
Korea: 1

then civs who don't rate get a '0' for that month.
At the end of the day the avg counts.

[Pitboss Japan]

Or you can give one 3, one 2 but unlimited 1 points in every category. So everyone who did good effort in story telling would get something.

[Robert]

Position			Story	Diplo	Mili	Score	Total	Voted		Dif
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
01. (01)(01)(01) Rome		15(+1)	18(--)	18(--)	18(+1)	69(+2)	xxxxxxxxxxxx	--
02. (02)(01)(02) Greece		18(--)	17(+1)	17(--)	14(-1)	66(--)	xxxxxxxxxxxx	--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
03. (03)(07)(12) Russia		13(--)	11(+2)	15(--)	13(--)	52(+2)	x---x--xxxxx	--
04. (05)(04)(05) Khmer		08(--)	15(--)	12(+3)	16(--)	51(+3)	xxxxxxxxxxx|	+1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
05. (04)(06)(07) Portug		06(--)	16(-1)	07(-1)	17(-1)	46(-3)	--xxxxxxxxxx	-1
06. (06)(04)(04) Korea		17(--)	14(--)	11(-2)	03(--)	45(-2)	xxxxxxxx----	--
06. (06)(07)(08) Japan		15(--)	09(-1)	13(--)	08(-1)	45(-2)	xxxxxxxx-xxx	--
08. (09)(03)(03) Maya		11(--)	12(--)	16(--)	05(-2)	44(-2)	xxxxxxxxxx-x	-1
08. (12)(12)(11) Metal		10(+1)	11(+5)	08(--)	15(+1)	44(+7)	xxxx--xxxxxx	+4
10. (06)(07)(06) HRE		09(-1)	08(-3)	14(--)	12(--)	43(-4)	-xxxxxxx----	-4
11. (10)(10)(08) Persia		16(--)	13(--)	10(-1)	03(--)	42(-1)	xxxxxxxx----	-1
12. (11)(11)(10) Vikings	12(--)	06(-1)	10(-1)	11(+1)	39(-1)	xxxxx-------	-1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
13. (13)(13)(13) Spain		07(--)	05(--)	03(--)	11(--)	26(--)	xxxxx---x--x	--
14. (14)(14)(14) Natives	03(--)	07(-2)	04(--)	09(+3)	23(+1)	xx-x--------	--
15. (14)(15)(15) Celts		04(--)	04(--)	06(--)	06(-2)	20(-2)	xxxxxxxxxxxx	-1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
16. (17)(17)(17) America	02(--)	02(--)	05(--)	07(+2)	16(+2)	-xx--xxx---x	+1
17. (16)(16)(16) England	05(--)	03(--)	03(--)	04(--)	15(--)	xxxx--------	-1
18. (18)(18)(18) Inca		02(--)	01(--)	03(--)	03(--)	09(--)	------------	--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Story	June08	July08	Aug08	Sept08	okt08	nov08	dec08	jan09	feb09	Mar09	Apr09	May09	Points
Greece 	21	16 (37)	12 (49)	15 (64)	10(74)	12(86)	22(108) 21(129)	10(139)	12(151)	13(165)	18(183)	18
Korea	7	21 (28)	25 (53)	14 (67)	22(89)	9(98)	11(109) 15(124)	15(139)	0(139)	0(139)	0(139)	17
Persia	10	15 (25)	10 (35)	6 (41)	9(50)	6(56)	2 (58)	13(71)	4(75)	0(75)	0(75)	0(75)	16
Japan	16	7 (23)	11 (34)	6 (40)	18(58)	8(66)	0 (66)	2(68)	0(68)	0(68)	2(70)	1(71)	15
Rome	2	0 (2)	9 (11)	4 (15)	5(20)	3(23)	9 (32)	4(36)	9(45)	8(53)	12(65)	6(71)	15 +1
Russia	5	0 (5)	0 (5)	0 (5)	0(5)	2*(5)	0 (5)	5(10)	8(18)	16(34)	13(47)	13(60)	13
Vikings	11	5 (16)	14 (30)	8 (38)	5(43)	0(43)	0 (43)	0(43)	0(43)	0(43)	0(43)	0(43)	12
Maya	1	1 (2)	2 (4)	8 (12)	3(15)	8(20)	3 (23)	7(30)	2(32)	8(40)	1*(40)	0(40)	11
Metal	8	2 (10)	4 (14)	1 (15)	0(15)	0(17)	6 (23)	0(23)	0(23)	0(23)	0(23)	16(39)	10 +1
HRE	3*	1 (1)	0 (1)	2 (3)	0(3)	5(8)	13 (21)	4(25)	0(25)	0(25)	0(25)	0(25)	9 -1
Khmer	1	0 (1)	5 (6)	11 (17)	0(17)	0(17)	3 (20)	0(20)	0(20)	1(21)	0(21)	2|(23)	8
Spain	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	2 (2)	10(12)	3*(12)	0 (12)	0(12)	0(12)	0(12)	0(12)	4(16)	7
Port	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	2 (2)	0(2)	7(9)	0 (9)	1(10)	0(10)	0(10)	0(10)	0(10)	6
Engla	0	0 (0)	4 (4)	0 (4)	0(4)	0(4)	0 (4)	0(4)	0(4)	0(4)	0(4)	0(4)	5
Celts	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	3(3)	0(3)	0(3)	0(3)	4
Natives	0	1 (1)	0 (1)	0 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	3
America	1*	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	2
Inca	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	2


Diplomacy
Rome	8	16 (24)	16 (40)	7 (47)	12(59)	11(70)	5 (75)	3(78)	10(88)	18(106)	9(115)	14(129)	18
Greece	7	1 (8)	4 (12)	0 (12)	16(28)	5(33)	8 (41)	11(52)	9(61)	7(68)	5(73)	10(83)	17 +1
Portu	3*	3*(0)	13 (13)	12 (25)	5(30)	12(42)	5 (47)	10(57)	4(61)	4(65)	9(74)	2(76)	16 -1
Khmer	5	2 (7)	3 (10)	5 (15)	11(26)	4(30)	10(40)	16(56)	2(58)	3(61)	6(67)	1|(68)	15
Korea	14	17 (31)	4 (35)	7 (42)	3(45)	3(48)	2 (50)	4(54)	9(63)	0(63)	0(63)	0(63)	14
Persia	2	11 (13)	6 (19)	12 (31)	8 (39)	10(49)	0 (49)	1(50)	0(50)	0(50)	0(50)	0(50)	13
Maya	6	2 (8)	3 (11)	0 (11)	0(11)	4(15)	3 (18)	8(26)	5(31)	4(35)	1*(35)	4(39)	12
Russia	1	5*(1)	2* (1)	0 (1)	2(3)	0(3)	0 (3)	6(9)	7(16)	6(22)	4(26)	7(33)	11 +2
Metal	7	0 (7)	0 (7)	0 (7)	0(7)	0(7)	1 (8)	0(8)	4(12)	1(13)	4(17)	16(33)	11 +5
Japan	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	8 (8)	6(14)	0(14)	1 (15)	2(17)	0(17)	7(24)	3(27)	4(31)	9 -1
HRE	0	0 (0)	2 (2)	2 (4)	3(7)	8(11)	9 (20)	9(29)	2*(29)	0(29)	0(29)	0(29)	8 -3
Natives	3	6 (9)	10 (19)	6 (25)	4*(25)	1(26)	1*(26)	0(26)	0(26)	0(26)	1*(26)	0(26)	7 -2
Vikings	5	3 (8)	8 (16)	3 (19)	3(22)	0(22)	0 (22)	0(22)	0(22)	0(22)	0(22)	0(22)	6 -1
Spain	0	3 (3)	1 (4)	3 (7)	5(12)	3*(12)	0 (12)	0(12)	1(13)	0(13)	0(13)	2(15)	5
Celts	0	5 (5)	0 (5)	0 (5)	0(5)	0(5)	5 (10)	1(11)	0(11)	0(11)	0(11)	0(11)	4
england 1	1 (2)	5 (7)	2 (9)	2*(9)	2*(9)	12*(9)	1*(9)	0(9)	0(9)	0(9)	0(9)	3
America	3*	0 (0)	0 (0)	4*(0)	0(0)	2(2)	4 (6)	2(8)	0(8)	0(8)	0(8)	0(8)	2
Inca	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	1


Military
Rome	5	4 (9)	25 (34)	18 (52)	7(59)	18(77)	23(100)	18(118)	4(122)	4(126)	12(128)	8(136)	18
Greece	0	4 (4)	3 (7)	6 (13)	2(15)	7(22)	12 (34)	1(35)	4(39)	18(57)	15(72)	10(82)	17
Maya	21	7 (28)	5 (33)	1 (34)	0(34)	13(47)	8 (55)	0(55)	8(63)	3(66)	1*(66)	2(68)	16
Russia	0	4*(0)	6* (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	7*(0)	0 (0)	12(12)	4(16)	16(32)	7(39)	1(40)	15
HRE	5*	0 (0)	0 (0)	1 (1)	0(1)	4(5)	14 (18)	13(31)	0(31)	0(31)	0(31)	0(31)	14
Japan	0	9 (9)	3 (12)	5 (17)	8(25)	0(25)	0 (25)	0(25)	0(25)	1(26)	2(28)	10(38)	13
Khmer	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	3 (3)	18(21)	0(21)	0(21)	2(23)	6|(29)	12 +3
Korea	9	0 (9)	3 (12)	0 (12)	2(14)	0(14)	0 (14)	0(14)	14(28)	0(28)	0(28)	0(28)	11 -2
Vikings	0	14 (14)	7 (21)	0 (21)	5(26)	2*(26)	0 (26)	0(26)	0(26)	0(26)	0(26)	0(26)	10 -1
Persia	3	3 (6)	9 (15)	4 (19)	0(19)	2(21)	3 (24)	0(24)	2(26)	0((26)	0((26)	0(26)	10 -1
Metal	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	8 (8)	0(8)	0(8)	4 (12)	1(13)	0(13)	1(14)	0(14)	10(24)	8
Portug	2*	3*(0)	4 (4)	1 (5)	5(10)	0(10)	0 (10)	0(10)	2(12)	1(13)	1(14)	6(20)	7 -1
Celts	0	0 (0)	3 (3)	0 (3)	0(3)	1(4)	2 (6)	0(6)	0(6)	0(6)	0(6)	1(7)	6
America	0	0 (0)	5 (5)	6*(5)	5*(5)	0(5)	0 (5)	0(5)	0(5)	0(5)	0(5)	0(5)	5
Natives 0	0 (0)	0 (0)	1 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0 (1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	0(1)	4
Spain 	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	4*(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	3
England	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	3
Inca	0	0 (0)	0 (0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0 (0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	0(0)	3

[Robert]

I usually do not comment on voting results, there are always weird votes.
But this time, I think it's a bit weird that Portugal whiped out all Khmer kolonies and got as much military votes for it as the Khmer got.

No need to start a debate here about voting (we'd better do that after the game is finished ) but please pay attention to your votes.

[Pitboss Rome]

Looking at these - isn't there an error in relation to Japan / HRE position on the military chart? Japan has 38 which is more than HRE yet is ranked below it? If I am right it means Japan moves above Korea on the overall score.

[Pitboss Spain]

Spain should have about 70 more vote points