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**Robert** · May 29, 2009, 03:47

Russia: I forgot to do some micromanagement. You have played your turn already though, will you allow me to join again only to do this micromanagement?

It doesn't involve troop-moving / drafting / anything war related.

**Pitboss Russia** · May 29, 2009, 08:40

Originally posted by Robert Plomp View Post

Russia: I forgot to do some micromanagement. You have played your turn already though, will you allow me to join again only to do this micromanagement?

It doesn't involve troop-moving / drafting / anything war related.

I don't know about that.........Perfidious Greeks.......Fish Fanciers......Sheep Worriers......Deviant in-breeders.......

No problems, thanks for the notification.

**St Jon** · May 29, 2009, 16:03

@Japan. Measured War is a very subjective term. Your idea of what is 'Measured' will inevitably differ from others.

Big point as well is that those rules were written for a Civ2 based Game and there loss of Capital was crippling. It isn't in CivIV, indeed Russia has actually now got a better site than before, as you get a freebie re-location.

Really, in a major conflict, what else could Rome offer? Maya must have liked it better than the Greek offer as the choice was their's. They could have declined both and just watched the Tanks rolling past without a single move available.

**Pitboss Rome** · May 29, 2009, 16:39

1. Thank you Japan for your apology for accuasing me of rule breaking.
2. Thank you Robert for making clear that you believe occ my actions where honourable.
3. Robert, you have left Japan's accusation in the story thread, while removing my response and Japan's retraction/apology in the org threat. Could you kindly bring these together in teh one place (basically remove Japan's occ accusation from the story thread).
4. Sadly Robert I resent the suggestion that somehow Japan's accusation is understandable because I didn't talk more about the deal on here. We are in a war! If people had known what was about to happen between Maya and Rome they could have done something about it. It happened one turn ago!

And all this from Japan whose whole empire is based on the fact that Japan for no good reason was given the whole of another nation (Piercia). I've never held that, and the fact that he won't acknowledge that this is Piercian land, against the new Japanese player, because what happened before he joined isn't his issue - he just has to play from where he starts. Exactly the same logic applied for Maya, and Maya has secured a great deal for himself.

Let's keep the unpleasantries in character?

**Robert** · May 29, 2009, 17:06

@4: I just mean: let's give each other some space to say things and do things. Sometimes we say thing we'd better might not have said, sometimes we do things.....
And I don't know if you could reveal the deal earlier. I do know that I tried to take Durango this turn, but my 2 first attempts were such a failure that I gave up. I should have had Durango now, the odds were mine

The lesser one is most probably doing a lot of sacrifices up there in Rome

**Robert** · May 29, 2009, 17:13

Awesome newspaper Spain!!!

**Pitboss Japan** · May 29, 2009, 18:18

Originally posted by Pitboss Rome View Post

Let's keep the unpleasantries in character?

I very agree with this, no use of hard feelings..

However...

We can continue to discuss it: for me the "measured war", the "not crippling players who still wana play", the so called "game balance" concept meant something.

You have some good point about Japan and i gave a lot of thought when i had started playing. The first peace offers both from Sparta and Russia included that i give up Piercia.-but i realized that Japan even with those cities are still in very very bad position. My core cities were undeveloped (i hardly had buildings in them), they were scattered all over the world etc.-So i thought: I will take that story version where the Japan-Piercia union was a peacefull one.-and admit it: the aggressive occupation is just an other story version-too bad that the piercian player left (I know nothing what happened then) Having these cities still leaves me in the bottom position amongst my neighbours-without them i would had been more crippled (and then i wouldnt had this fun war with you

) And I havent got whole Piercia-only half of it (btw Russia has even less right/need of them

).

Back to the Mayans:
That deal is bad in my opinion-if the Mayan player wants to play a pure rp nation then all right, but ingame they wont be able to do too much. No research, no production nothing.
It seems strange: you wage war, getting more and more cities but in the end you are supposed to give most of them back unless you take soo much city that your opponent give up so you can keep all the cities ( I'm not saying this was Rome intention-the opposite actually: it was the previous Mayan player who didnt try to negotiate). But when the new player came I think he would had deserve a fair peace offer.
So the difference between the piercian and mayan situation: 1, there is no Piercian player who wana play, 2 Rome is one of the top player not as puny as Japan. So I was really suprised that when the new player came Rome got even more cities in exchange for some "outposts"
I think the best option would had been if Rome had liberated some mayan cities and offer them protection for the mayan support in the ongoing war.

**OzzyKP** · May 29, 2009, 18:29

Originally posted by Pitboss Spain View Post

Great to have you in the game.

**Robert** · May 29, 2009, 19:32

It's been a good war/story month

It'll be hard to make a choice for voting.

Regarding the official turn order:
1. Sparta/Russia | Portugal
2. Russia/Rome | Khmer

All civs please end your turn within 24 hours.
Russia/Rome and Khmer, please end turn within 24 hours after Sparta/Japan (Russia/Rome) or Portugal (Khmer) ended their turn.

Schematic (example):

Code:

0h             new turn
1h
2h
3h             Japan ends turn
4h
5h             Portugal ends turn
6h
7h
8h
9h             Sparta ends turn
10h
11h
..
23h
24h           All civs except Russia/Rome and Khmer end turn
25h
26h
27h
28h
29h           Khmer ends turn
30h
31h
32h
33h           Rome/Russia end turn
0h            New turn

At the same time is it so that civs at war have the responsibility to play asap, especially those who are first in the turn order. If you can't commit to that ask a change of turn order.

**Pitboss Japan** · May 30, 2009, 02:52

Hmm I don't think this schemaitc is right. How could i promise that i can finish my turn in the first 3 hours? It all depends when the turn starts. If I'm on my way to work i can not play for the next 10-11h.
What I can promise is that I can play in the first 12h so the other party would have at least 12h to make their turn (if we go with the 24h timer but as i see it's ~36h now).

Or you have to guarantiee that the turn start in a given time every day: if its 7 GMT for example then i will play in the first 3 hours. Rome/Russia would have the whole evening so we could keep the turns within 24h.

**Robert** · May 30, 2009, 03:00

it's an example. If Japan ends turn at hour x and Sparta at turn x+5 then Rome/Russia must end turn before turn x+5+24 (= x+2)

**Pitboss Spain** · May 30, 2009, 03:17

you guys are making me blush. I really love the game so far

**St Jon** · May 30, 2009, 06:30

@Robert. What have Portugal/Khmer got to do with Greece/Japan/Rome/Russia/Wyandot? They are only fighting eachother so I don't really understand why Russia/Rome, you have omitted Wyandot, should wait until Khmer have finished before playing. Am I reading this correctly?

@Japan. Those Piercian cities were obtained via the most inequitous IG fudge believable and then the position given abused by the previous Jap player cheating. None of us can claim a 'right' to own them so they are fair game for anyone to take and make profit from without any reference to 'measured war' being made. Their loss will hurt Japan far more than Russia but that is beside the point as they never really belonged to either of us.

**Pitboss Japan** · May 30, 2009, 07:07

Originally posted by St Jon View Post

@Japan. Those Piercian cities were obtained via the most inequitous IG fudge believable and then the position given abused by the previous Jap player cheating. None of us can claim a 'right' to own them so they are fair game for anyone to take and make profit from without any reference to 'measured war' being made. Their loss will hurt Japan far more than Russia but that is beside the point as they never really belonged to either of us.

We are agree on this.

But here is an other matter (somewhat connected to that): sometimes i feel that we go too far with the propaganda
for example:
one post pictures that the invaders totaly destroyed the captured city massacred every one
the other post a picture and story that the citizens welcomed the liberators with flowers...

I think it's not the best for the stroy thread to have these totally different points of view

and back to Piercia:
one say that the pedofil, zoofil, sadist, murderer (

) japanese captured piercia and killing the people for joy. So he comes to liberate

the other (me) say that the union was a peacfull and free-will decision and try to defend himself

There is no truth here but versions of the story and i think it's unfortunate that they are this far from each other, but maybe I'm the only one who disturbed by this a bit

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