New diplo game: big discussion needed

[bamf226]

I think there is a very easy solution to this without splitting hairs on a double moves. War can only be declared at the end of all movement for a turn. There. Problem solved. War declared and turn order established

[mzprox]

I think there is a very easy solution to this without splitting hairs on a double moves. War can only be declared at the end of all movement for a turn. There. Problem solved. War declared and turn order established

Do you mean that the established turn order is the same as it was in the last turrn? then your version is the same as ours except a bit more restricting.

Btw i wonder how big defenese you (everyone) have in your coastal cities on average. My guess is 1-3 units which is nothing against a well planned amphibious attack.

Anyway: as i see everyone agrees that there is an advantage of this double move just some of us thinks that it's unfair and some thinks that it is not.

[mzprox]

Here you have a situation where the Natives have not declared War or attacked anyone. How does Sumeria know that those Galley's have a malign intent? What gives Sumeria the right to attack them without warning? In a Turn based Gane there is no argument, I see 3 Galleys heading my way and, if I've got the Navy to do it, I'll sink the little buggers.

As you said: if you see transports heading to your way you will sink them-if you can. If not at least you will do some preparations. If we allow the attacker to double move you wont get that chance at all.

[Black Knight 427]

50 Knights seems like overkill. I just want to know how Civ B got 50 knights before Civ A could get muskets. I know this is a dramatization but couldn't you make your examples more realistic?

[Black Knight 427]

I think there is a very easy solution to this without splitting hairs on a double moves. War can only be declared at the end of all movement for a turn. There. Problem solved. War declared and turn order established

This is a good idea but it dose nothing to prevent a double move.

[bamf226]

Do you mean that the established turn order is the same as it was in the last turrn? then your version is the same as ours except a bit more restricting.

Btw i wonder how big defenese you (everyone) have in your coastal cities on average. My guess is 1-3 units which is nothing against a well planned amphibious attack.

Anyway: as i see everyone agrees that there is an advantage of this double move just some of us thinks that it's unfair and some thinks that it is not.

Ideally, the combatants would establish their own turn order much like Ozzy suggested. However, at least for the first turn of war there is no chance of a double move.

[bamf226]

This is a good idea but it dose nothing to prevent a double move.

War is declared at end of turn. Double move rules are established for war time. I see no problem here.

Maybe as a good sport you even send your opponent a PM saying you are at war so he knows to go in ASAP and survey the situation.

[Rasputin]

do you remember when civ was a turn based game and if you wanted Rela time games you palyed Age of Empires

[Black Knight 427]

do you remember when civ was a turn based game and if you wanted Rela time games you palyed Age of Empires

No, never played Age of Empires.

[Robert]

The easiest solution is just include the turn before the war into the turn order.
That's what every pitboss game does.

[Robert]

I understand your examples but what's this bit about the Sumerians attacking the Natives? Here you have a situation where the Natives have not declared War or attacked anyone. How does Sumeria know that those Galley's have a malign intent? What gives Sumeria the right to attack them without warning? In a Turn based Gane there is no argument, I see 3 Galleys heading my way and, if I've got the Navy to do it, I'll sink the little buggers.

THis is just about Sumeria having the chance to react on the 3 native galleys heading their way. Declaration of war is an option, a blockade is an option, contacting your allies is, moving 10 longbowmen into Uruk is an opion.

The bottom line is: he has the chance to do something.
If the Natives are allowed to double move he has no chance! He logouts and when he logs in a day later his city is conquered because the Natives were allowed to double move. Not because his defence wasn't good enough.

The BIG problem comes in the Modern Era where those wouldn't be Galleys but Transports. They could be sitting in port loaded with 15 Marines and still reach their target in 1 Turn! No Double Move Rule is going to stop that and you cannot see Troops once loaded so, even with massive Espionage, the Sumerians are up the pole regardless.

In the modern age there are destroyers and battleships with much movement that defend my coastal cities.
The situation is the same, the only difference is that transports and destroyers have more movement steps then galleys and triremes.

But a double move in the modern age is as horrible as well.
One can move his transports through a big destroyer wall and pull an amphibious attack if one is allowed to double move.
If nobody is allowed to double move then the desroyers can respond on the incoming transport fleet.

Just stick to the turn based basic principle of civilization during war! And that obviously includes the 'turn before'. Why not? What's the harm if we do include that turn? There is no harm while there is plenty of harm if we do not include it.

BTW. Who is this PitBoss Greece guy who's posting on this Thread? I think you should investigate Mr Plomp.

He should be perm-banned
I'm sorry for using my wrong login. thought for a sec that this was the org thread of btp.

Btw i wonder how big defenese you (everyone) have in your coastal cities on average. My guess is 1-3 units which is nothing against a well planned amphibious attack.

That's why I have a naval fleet in front of my coasts.

[Black Knight 427]

I have a small question. I have been trying to read all the post from the beging but can't figure out a few this like are the rules made? what mod you are using? who is playing?

[OzzyKP]

I might be willing to get in on some of this action though I haven't played Civ4 in a long time.

Awesome, welcome.

[Robert]

Yeah, forgot to comment on that: Awesome Oerdin!

[MNGoldenEagle]

Hey, can I join in this game too? It sounds like fun!