"Diplogame" PolyCast Special

[The Capo]

Apparently there is going to be a special segment involving Diplogames in an upcoming Polycast. I have been invited to be on it, and I thought I'd post here and ask everyone what they think we should talk about, and what issues should be discussed. So give me some ideas guys...

[Rasputin]

discuss the whole community aspect of the diplo style. how it evolved and where it is now. Everyone has a keen interest in mods like yours becasue they want the game to be more menaingful.

Mention the difficulty of maintaining interet when playing pitboss version. The one turn per day etc.

Mention how some people are great novelists and deserve their own book when it comes to story telling.

mention how the greeks in the current game have taken graphic manipulation to the next level.

The work of people like your self trawling the internet for pictures etc.

Explain it is not jsut about the game but the sotries and posting a Role Play style too.

But each determines how much or little he puts into each game.

[Beta]

Awesome Capo.

I would discuss how the Civ4 game gives us a wonderful framework to wrap our diplo games around.

The in-game limitations AND capabilities, when combined with the "official" yet "unofficial" set of diplo rules, the slower game speed, and most importantly, flavored by the personalities involved, create a gaming experience quite unlike any other.

You can quote me on that.

[OzzyKP]

I thought this was still on the DL. But now that the cat is out of the bag, Capo, I think it'd be good to have a Diplogaming special on Modcast as well, that discusses your Diplomacy mod. Could be a great tie-in between the two shows.

[The Capo]

Originally posted by OzzyKP
I thought this was still on the DL. But now that the cat is out of the bag, Capo, I think it'd be good to have a Diplogaming special on Modcast as well, that discusses your Diplomacy mod. Could be a great tie-in between the two shows.

I didn't know it was ever on the DL, or why it would be. But in my opinion Diplogames in general are on the DL in many ways, and I think the best thing to do with this would be to use it as an advertisment for diplogames. In order to get more diplogamers. Clearly we can't muster more than 18 players, and even of those 18 players a few of them are first-timers. So in my opinion the greater service here would be go get more diplogamers. Even if we can only lure in five more players that would be a nice increase in our ranks.

So I think part of what we do with the Polycast forum we'll be provided with is explain what got us into it and why civ-players in general would actually enjoy this style of game more than they may realize.

I think part of it would be to shoot down the "advanced role-playing" stigma diplogames have. I've seen a lot of people on different threads (here and at CFC) describe it as nothing more than a roleplaying game, which to me is erroneous. I don't think there is a true necessity to role-play beyond the diplomacy itself, which I don't consider roleplaying at all, just "advanced" diplomacy. And by that I mean beyond the framework the game provides. I think if there is too much of a focus on "roleplaying" in and of itself it may serve as a turn-off to people who don't realize the roleplaying isn't so much roleplaying for the sake of it, but diplomacy beyond the normal parameteres of the game.

I guess my point is, roleplaying isn't so much a rule, but an enhancement of diplomacy.

[OzzyKP]

Well I think we may have more players now than at any point in diplogaming history. The trouble though is the games have gotten way bigger. The old Civ2 games used to top out at what, 7 players? So three totally full concurrent games with all unique players (which rarely happened) would about equal as many players as we have in one game now.

Going back to smaller games might be the best idea for us. 18 is worth trying, just to say we did it, especially as a way of trying out Pitboss, but I think it is producing a lower quality game.

We've got several more active diplogamers out there too who are either sitting out this game, or not interested in Pitboss. So obviously more is always needed and welcome, but I think it is worth considering the idea that we may now be at diplogaming's peak.

Something worth discussing and mentioning in the Polycast.

I'll see if I can get a new mic so I can get in on the action.

[The Capo]

I'll see if I can get a new mic so I can get in on the action.

If you live near Parklawn in Rockville there should be places all over, there's a circuit city right there near where the old Hooter's was (accross the street from the current Hooter's) and there's a radio shack accross from congressional plaza, plus there's a target right there. I got one of those NFL Coach headsets, its pretty sweet but I forgot how much it costs.

And don't call it a peak yet, we should strive for better. And my point was simply that since we can now play with more people we also need more players as well. And I was under the impression that HOTWXII and BtP have nearly all overlapping players.

[Heraclitus]

Re: "Diplogame" PolyCast Special

Originally posted by The Capo
Apparently there is going to be a special segment involving Diplogames in an upcoming Polycast. I have been invited to be on it, and I thought I'd post here and ask everyone what they think we should talk about, and what issues should be discussed. So give me some ideas guys...

Oh, I completley missed this thread. Great see my idea didn't die when I left due to RL issues. Who else will be on?

[Heraclitus]

Originally posted by Beta
Awesome Capo.

I would discuss how the Civ4 game gives us a wonderful framework to wrap our diplo games around.

The in-game limitations AND capabilities, when combined with the "official" yet "unofficial" set of diplo rules, the slower game speed, and most importantly, flavored by the personalities involved, create a gaming experience quite unlike any other.

You can quote me on that.

Diplo is quite simply the best way to play civ.

[MMC]

I suppose I ought to say something about this.

DanQ has tasked me with this special (I volunteered to be a guest and he asked me to do a whole show), and I have invited Capo, Ozzy, and Danny PO to co-host with me.

We hope to present some different but complimentary views on the state of Diplogaming, and to answer some of the more common fallacies. I suppose this would be as good a thread as any to ask for any questions that people want answered.

If you're worried about your view not being represented, then don't worry; hopefully we will be able to get the right people to answer each question.

More info will come when we have it.

[The Capo]

My idea when I made this thread, was to help us to determine what we want to cover, and maybe get some ideas that the four of us may not have come up with on our own. So basically I want to represent everyone, that way (at least in my mind) we can pique more interest in other "would-be" diplogamers who may not quite understand exactly what it is we do. So I don't think we should be as hard-line on the posting/roleplaying aspect. I am not saying we should sneak this on people, but honestly we are pretty lenient when it comes to this and there is no requirement to post in depth stories like I tend to post. I think roleplaying only really should go as far as conducting your replies as if you were representing a real nation rather than conducting yourself like a regular player of civ. I think the diplomatic aspect is what should be stressed, because (at least in my experience) the diplogame really gets played out in PMs, IMs, E-Mails and in the threads rather than the game itself. But of course the game itself is important.

I think we should at least devote a small portion of our time to describing HOW it was, and WHEN it was that diplogame came about, including how it developed from that into its current incarnation. Originally diplogames were played in Civ2 on primarily Earth maps. And we have tried a lot of different things over the years, some successful and some not so successful, such as:

- A mod for Civ 2 (HOTWII)
- A gigamap for Civ 2 (UltraDip)
- A themed game (EuroDip)
- A "terra style game" Civ 2 (HOTWII)
- We've also done Terra games in Civ IV
- Pitboss (obviously)

I wasn't really around for the Civ3 era in diplogaming, but it didn't seem too extensive.

We should also discuss how we have had all types of nationalities playing in games, off the top of my head we have had players from Canada, United States of America, Chile, France, Britain, Netherlands, Germany, Singapore, and Australia (that I can remember). Which has obviously caused problems (when we had scheduled sessions).

I guess my point is that, I started this thread in order to kind of help us decide how we were going to present diplogames and even explain how it seems to only be an Apolyton phenomenon. There were actually independently-formed diplogames at CFC but it seems they all ended very quickly and a consistent community never materialized, so we may or may not want to talk about that. We can also discuss how it is a good way to start out and meet people (I would have said friends, but lately it doesn't seem very friendly all the time, colleagues is probably a better phrase) at Apolyton that you get to know and play with on a pretty regular basis.

So that's what I wanted to discuss with this thread. Maybe form some type of outline for us to follow on the show.

[Beta]

TC (The Capo) - not sure if you have done the show yet - but on reviewing this thread again, and your comments above - one thing that comes to mind is the impact of pitboss on diplogaming.

Having been a late comer to diplo gaming after years of demo gaming and pbem's, I found the MP aspect of diplo gaming an issue. Not so much the format - as there was a relaxed turn timer - other than of course Toni yelling "TURN!" every 30 seconds ... ... but more with the large time commitment once a week (my wife was not impressed), and with the myriad of connection issues which caused a tremendous amount of downtime. It was a never an issue for me, but I did feel for the folks who were getting up at 3am their time to play a 4 hour MP session.

With pitboss - those last three issues are essentially gone.

Also, the game and the corresponding stories tend to be more aligned - as opposed to the staccato type of posting one often got with the once-a-week MP sessions.

IMHO, pitboss is a godsend, not just for regular MP and democracy civ games, but for diplo gaming as well.

[Beta]

Originally posted by The Capo
So I don't think we should be as hard-line on the posting/roleplaying aspect. I am not saying we should sneak this on people, but honestly we are pretty lenient when it comes to this and there is no requirement to post in depth stories like I tend to post. I think roleplaying only really should go as far as conducting your replies as if you were representing a real nation rather than conducting yourself like a regular player of civ. I think the diplomatic aspect is what should be stressed, because (at least in my experience) the diplogame really gets played out in PMs, IMs, E-Mails and in the threads rather than the game itself. But of course the game itself is important.

Agreed 100%!

When i asked someone to sub for me in BTP, the first reaction I got was "I don't have to write any stories, do I!!??" But I do believe there is still the requirement to make something "more" of your civ and its role in the world. But there is a lot of gray area between posting nothing and recreating "War and Peace". I think that is what you were trying to say as well - and an important point to get across.

It then raises the question of why we have story-telling as 25% of the score in a game like BTP. I can just hear my friend retorting "See, I do HAVE to post stories if I want to win."

And to that I think there are two replies. First - quality of the stories, not quantity (provided it is greater than zero ) should be the yardstick. (That being said, Korea still has garnered a number of my votes in BTP, but that is also a reflection on the quality. Piercia still has better pictures. )

And secondly, and I think this is an important point to bring up in response to the story and scoring issue, but also in response to questions regarding the official unofficial rules about not eliminating a civ, etc etc) and that would be...

Like any good trip or adventure, it is the journey which is important, and not necessarily the final destination. Ditto for a diplo game. Yes, we would all like to win, and most play towards that end. But I would suspect that 100% of diplo gamers could honestly say that they are in it for the experience ... for the journey.

Game on.

[The Capo]

All good points, and no we haven't done it yet, I think its going to happen in the next two to three weeks.

[MMC]

The time has come to actually get together and try to record something in the next week or so.

Currently the hosts will be Myself, The Capo, OzzyKP, and Danny PO. If Ozzy is unable to participate due to being too lazy to get a new mic , then I would like to nominate Beta to take his place. Vampgelus is another possible contender.