Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [Organization Thread II]

[Pinchak]

I really think we should just stick with the 1/3 time rule.

RULE: If you are at war, you must wait 1/3 of the max turn timer before making your next move.

Waiting for the other person to play isn't going to work. People will wait until the end of the timer to play their turn in order to shrink their enemy's time window.

No rule is problematic too. This is a HUGE exploit if not addressed.

[Pitboss Korea]

I agree with Pinchak, a rule has to be made and agreed upon. Its irresponsible not to have done this before, there have been at least three (probably four) wars so far and we don't even have a procedure for this. We've lost a player because if it once (although I benefitted from that I guess), so we should probably get on it. I wish those in charge would say something about this rather than continue to simply complain about posts in the wrong threads.

[Robert]

Guys, why on earth are we suddenly debating this rule?
There's no need to discuss this rule. Nobody is questioning the rule.

stop being silly. I gave an EXAMPLE.

Please don't tell me that you guys don't know what an example is..........

[Pitboss Vikings]

Fortunalty the japanese and i had a gentlemans agreement when it came to our war, we took turns during it, i attacked him at end of one turn, he then went first in every subsequent turn we each waited to ensure the other played before taking a move.

I firmly belive this is the only far way of making this rule work. You must wait for the other player to move before you can take your turn again.

The 1/3 of the turn timer is not good enough.

For instance, a USA player is sleeping on Friday night, this is fortunalty a Saturday morning in Australia. I attack the USA player at my leisure so it happnes t obe between 10-11 at night.

I then wait the requsted 1/3 of timer as this is a 20-22 hr timer i can make nesxt move in about 7-8 hrs so lets say i make it 8 hrs at worst case. It now 6-7AM in morning. The USA PLAYER does not even know he has been attacked so he sleeping in on Saturday morning after a hard week at work or school.

I have now moved my troops twice. without him having a chance to respond. Any workers still in the act of working are now captured. His cpatial probably surrounded. Hoepfulyl it is wel ldefended.

No this can not and should nothappen.

I beleive the only far way is to wait for the other player.

We need to revisit this rule.

[Pitboss Korea]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Guys, why on earth are we suddenly debating this rule?
There's no need to discuss this rule. Nobody is questioning the rule.

stop being silly. I gave an EXAMPLE.

Please don't tell me that you guys don't know what an example is..........

Alright, if the moderators want us to stop spamming and stuff they have to promise to CHILL THE **** OUT themselves.

Damn!

Its being debated because it needs to be debated, the first time it was violated NOTHING HAPPENED that's why, when we were having problems with Rome finishing their turn NOTHING HAPPENED. That's why things get debated, because the only thing being done is posts getting deleted.

Its an issue, it should be debated and Raz makes a good point. So chill out, and stop *****ing everytime someone ELSE has something to say. This is an appropriate issue to bring up in an appropriate forum, what else do you want?

[Pitboss Korea]

Now that I got that off my chest; Raz does make a good point and I can see how that will/can lead to people taking advantage.

I was thinking we could look at it like gentlemen's agreements for warfare, but I don't know that everyone will accept this or abide by it. The only real way to do it is to take turns, but as Pinchak noted people may wait until the last minutes to make their move thus limiting their opponent. Either way there is always going to be some way of cheating, so we're all going to have to agree to follow any rule that's made. I think we may need to extend the 1/3rd rule to either 1/2 or maybe even 3/4ths.

And sorry for blowing up CS, its just that between the spam, the complaining about the spam, and then everything that isn't exactly what YOU consider organization being issues I'm just jumpy. I do think this issue is important enough to discuss. And I think this is a better thread to do it, just so long as we try and keep the spamming out of the discussion.

[Pinchak]

I firmly belive this is the only far way of making this rule work. You must wait for the other player to move before you can take your turn again.

Taking turns would only work if both civs agreed to it at the start of the war. Regardless of what other rules (or lack thereof) are decided upon, this arrangement can always be made between two civs.

To make it a hard fast rule though would never work. All a player would have to do is wait until there is 30 seconds left on the timer then make his move... thus denying the other player his turn altogether.

I wouldn't be opposed to increasing the wait to 1/2 a turn. Of course the countdown would begin as soon as the player ended his turn.

EXAMPLE: Player1 declares war on Player2 at 2PM player1's time. The turn timer is set to 22 hours. Player1 would have to wait until 1AM to make his next move... UNLESS player2 makes a move in that 11 hours... in which case Player1 could move immediately after.

[Pitboss Korea]

I agree, its too difficult to police it. I suggested this a while ago, and it may be the only way to accomplish what we want, and I know before I type it that there are going to be plenty of objections to this.

I think we should be able to vote people out of the game if they abuse the system. This is only going to extend into more problems if there is no repercussions for taking advantage of the pitboss system. There are a lot of players, and that means that there will be issues with people's schedules; in other words not everyone will have the ability to play at the same times as other people. Thus there will be unfair issues in war.

Its going to be hard to keep to the timer rules, whether its 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 or whatever into the next turn.

Unless we just allow players to make their moves whenever they can/will this will always be a problem. We either have to all agree on some type of solution or we have to accept that some people (ie those who play their turn quicker or more often) are going to have the advantage. This issue can only be solved with one of those understandings.

A lot of people aren't going to want to hear this, or believe it, or whatever you call it. But its true. I don't think pitboss is a good style for diplogames, and sadly there are going to be people who will, or would be willing to, take advantage of the timer and of the settings. So we've got to come to a conclusion on this, we can either stick with what we have now and accept that people will take advantage, or we've got to make another arrangement. Other than that, people are going to argue and possibly quit. Its hard to replace diplogamers, so I suggest we do something constructive here.

[Pitboss Vikings]

Well it amzes me that people would actually consider not palying their turn in this game jsut so that the other party cant have a turn.

I am of the opinion that if someone did this that the game should be immediatly stopped and the offending player given a warning and then reload the game from the previous turn saved.

Cyber needs to save every turn, with only need to hold onto perhpas 7 turns worth at any time.

I believe it not be a gentlemans agreement to take turns during war, it must be mandatory.

This is the correct forum to make the decision now. We decided before game commenced to not allow Double turns , then we compromised to make it no double turns during war.

We let it go the first time it occured. We need hard and fast rules in place now.

It is too advantageous to have two turns in a row at any time let alone a war turn.

It could affect the game during peace too , for example i am rushing a settler to a stragegic point, my rival sees it where it going and usses a double turn to beat me to the place and builds a city instead.

War is even worse. especaily on turn of declaration.

If i absebt for 18 hours for real life i could miss the dclaration of war and by doing your silly 1/3 or 1/2 or 3/4 rule miss my turn to move agaisnt the enemy.

By enforcing the no move till opposion does once you delcare war it will remove a lot of this exploit. not toatlly jsut mostly.

If anyone holds up a turn and prevents someone moving then it takes a simple post in here and Cybe will reload the game one trun preveiously and the offending player is warned,

Second time doing ther crime you are removed from the game.

[Pitboss Korea]

Originally posted by Pitboss Vikings
It could affect the game during peace too , for example i am rushing a settler to a stragegic point, my rival sees it where it going and usses a double turn to beat me to the place and builds a city instead.

This can happen in a regular MP game too though Raz, fastest fingers and all.

[Pitboss Vikings]

yes which is why i have not made a biger issue of this part.

Since they moved away from Turn Based game to Simulataneous moves to attract the younger audience CIV has gone down hill

Syd needs to return CIV to where it was a Turn based Strategy game. once the fastest fingers coem into it it no longer a Stratgey game.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Guys, why on earth are we suddenly debating this rule?
There's no need to discuss this rule. Nobody is questioning the rule.

stop being silly. I gave an EXAMPLE.

Please don't tell me that you guys don't know what an example is..........

Seriously. As time goes by I am paying less and less attention to the threads. It is getting comical really.

But, I do have a serious org matter to bring up. I'm trying to register my leader on CivStats and it is asking for a password.

It asks me to select my leader in the game. Then it asks for a "Registration Password"

The explanation it gives is: "Your game administrator chooses this password. It is not your player password."

So.... what is the password?

Also, what is HRE's diplo e-mail?



Edit: MMC tells me, " the password is the same one you gave to Cyber at the start of the game... the one he used to make your plomp email"

So.. what is that?

[Pitboss Korea]

I actually asked this same question a few weeks ago and nobody told me either. Which is why I find it ridiculous that the people who are running this game whine all the time but aren't actually, you know, running the game.

[MMC]

Worst case... Cyber can change the password to something Ozzy can remember for 5 mins (long enough to register on CivStats). Then Ozzy can forget about it again.

Also... Korea, you could try using 'cockeral'

[Pitboss Japan]

i just registered my leader and the password was the same one i use to log in to the game.