Beyond the Pit [Pitboss Diplomacy Game] [OOC Chat Thread]

[Pitboss Korea]

Another thing; I don't think you should be allowed to fake wars. That is just too much, nobody fakes wars. Its ridiculous. I'm especially disappointed in Ras right now because he is all about realism yet he is going around faking wars with people?

On top of all that, and I want to make sure Ras understands this because he has a tendency to misinterpret things or at least assign the WRONG mindset to them. The reason I am not going to deal with you in private anymore is two-fold. The first is the simple fact that you just put all of those messages out in public like that and I'd rather not have my personal words with you used in such a way. Secondly, I don't want third-hand information, or information someone else told me, to become public either. This was just a really foolish thing you did, and I don't get what you thought was going to occur or how you would benefit by doing something like this.

[Pitboss Vikings]

Capo capo capo...

You really need to keep up with the story threads.


The Japanese were upset about some land deal they thought was supposed to happen. I told them it had never been agreed to he tried to make me out to be a deal breaker.

Most of the posts were from the old Japan leader so is was about time they were released

What do i get out of releasing these. To show i dont make deals and break them. I never promised him access to my resources . I only ever promised him the LandBridge with all its resources.

Now to the war. It certainly wasnt fake. I delcared war on the japanese for being too close to my territory i chased him all over the place and eventually drove him out. He lsot one warrior during the war approximately 50% of his forces. I used much DIPLO to keep him thinking it wasnt real while still achieivng what i was after. Get the Japanese away from my citys so i could expand more cities without him knowing. This is what occured, and eventually it is why he upset with me. He thoguht the copperin south was still available it wasnt. While his warriors were being DIRECTED by me to certain positions i was rushing settlers to fill a void.

So before you go judginy me , make sure you seek my views.

Yes i played with the former Japanese player. He thought he had me cowering and i palyed the frieghtened player well. I posted to him how greatful i was of his help, i needed him. In truth i used him. Ask how much better his warriors would have been exploring his own island back then to find his own IRON. But no i got his two warriors in my land fighting barbarians. saved me having to fight a 3 front war with barbd lng enough to get what i wanted. The former jap leader was too arrogant and mouthy. You can see from his posts how he thought he could conquer the world. All this fell into my plans.

The new japanese leader was open and honest from start so i offered him the land deal again. The landbridge was his. But unfortuantly he had been led to beleive something else.

So dont be upset Capo. I only reveal things if the other player is trying to lie publicly.

If you are the type of player that lies in PMs or in Open then i udnerstand your need to not send any more PMs.

Howver if you are an open and honest player that doesnt lie , but simply doesnt always reveal al lthe truth, then you hav enothing to fear.

And you certainly had no issue with me sharing other PM information to you via IM........ about other civs....

[Pitboss Japan]

I don't know what I find more disterbing the posting of pms or the sharing through IM of pms. This fighting has really opened my eyes to the type of players that are playing here. In the future I'll make sure I become more careful about who I'm dealing with.

[Pitboss Vikings]

I dont regard this issue as fighitng , it al ljsut part of the DIPLO style.

Communications between nations is often spoken about between other nations.

It all part of diplomacy. If you think that when you speak to one nation that it wont ever let otherpeople know what wa sspoken then you sadly mistaken.

No one truly knows who is allied to who in this game. I hope even the current alliances change as the game progresses.

and dont think that this is the only time that messages between civs has been spread in this game.

Portugul and ROme posted their PM messgaes in the story thread.

Nations have spoken to me on many occasions on what other natiuons are planning. (Dont worry i wont reveal those PMs , well not yet anyway )

So it not a big issue, it was part of the game. I posted in the sotry thread how it occured, major treason .

I will evnetually blame another nation for this and take action.


But please remeber folks it all part of the game, lets not get personal about any of this.

[Pitboss Rome]

Originally posted by Pitboss Korea
Another thing; I don't think you should be allowed to fake wars. That is just too much, nobody fakes wars. Its ridiculous. I'm especially disappointed in Ras right now because he is all about realism yet he is going around faking wars with people?

As to faking wars, I must say I can imagine this happening in RL.

[Pitboss Rome]

Originally posted by Pitboss Vikings

Portugul and ROme posted their PM messgaes in the story thread.

You made a mistake here.


Portugal did. We resented that greatly. Rome never posted the PM's or chat that spoke in its favor since we feel this shouldn't be done. Also we remembered you where the one who encouraged Portugal to do so.


And I assure you that we will only deal in private with civs that don't violate protocol in such a manner.

WE have said this in the story thread. And if Oldonia ever does something like this again we will need to reexamine our relationship with you.




Also Japan is the bottom player, and you admitting you used them will not win you any popularity contests. What happened to helping the bottom players? Sure the last player of Japan could be ... difficult... sometimes, but how is the new player responsible for this?

[Pitboss Vikings]

As stated above, i used the previous palyer as he was talking it up big and appeared to be not the small palyer he turned out to be.
He certainly helped me achieve my aims at the time.

The current palyer was offered a deal that he didnt find acceptable

He was offered access to more land than I myself have.

He was offered accees to Copper on the land bridge freely.

so dont tell me i am not helping the small.

Japan felt threatened by my nation, he thought i am bullying him. Yet as all my PMs above show, i was continualy offering him advice and offered him land to expand into.

[Pitboss Vikings]

If this posting of Archived messages is so bad, i will freely step aside and let another take my place.

If people are going to take this personaly then it better that i move on.


Seems that a few are going to change their ingame attitude based on this , rather than it being detrimental to the game it perhpas best i leave and allow someone more suitable to play on.

[Pitboss Rome]

Now, now I myself have held a senitment like your own.


But if I can speak for myself, I'm not bothered by raz, I'm bothered by Oldonia and that is the way it should be.



But remember the real danger of posting PM's:
Veritas odium paret

[Pitboss Vikings]

provided you dea lwith it as it shoudl be..

I have an old Leader who is dying and losing control of his nation.

I posted the story of how the leak ocured it is time to move on .

dont let out of game things affect the in game stuff

[Pitboss Korea]

I hate actually making posts like this, the quote by quote type, but I feel that I have to at least defend my position on this issue.

Originally posted by Pitboss Vikings
Capo capo capo...

You really need to keep up with the story threads.

I certainly do keep up with the story threads, I don't know where you got this idea from.

The Japanese were upset about some land deal they thought was supposed to happen. I told them it had never been agreed to he tried to make me out to be a deal breaker.

Most of the posts were from the old Japan leader so is was about time they were released

I don't agree that there is some form of necessity to "declassify" PMs, I never said there was a rule against it though. And I never said you weren't allowed to do it, I just said it was in bad form. And I stick by this. Not to mention it wasn't done in a diplomatic fashion, it angers me that people try to use OOC discussion as PART of their politics. OOC should have nothing to do with the political situation in the game, and that is precisely why I have a problem with this.

What do i get out of releasing these. To show i dont make deals and break them. I never promised him access to my resources . I only ever promised him the LandBridge with all its resources.

Now to the war. It certainly wasnt fake. I delcared war on the japanese for being too close to my territory i chased him all over the place and eventually drove him out. He lsot one warrior during the war approximately 50% of his forces. I used much DIPLO to keep him thinking it wasnt real while still achieivng what i was after. Get the Japanese away from my citys so i could expand more cities without him knowing. This is what occured, and eventually it is why he upset with me. He thoguht the copperin south was still available it wasnt. While his warriors were being DIRECTED by me to certain positions i was rushing settlers to fill a void.

This is probably the most confusing part of your post. Your first point is that, again, you are using an OOC medium (the OOC thread) to discuss an issue that should be done in game. If you truly believe people don't trust you, you've got to use diplomacy to prove it. Showing people's PMs doesn't achieve this. If anything it only cements the concept that you are not trustworthy. How does showing private messages prove you are worthy of trust? In my mind this indicates the opposite.

So before you go judginy me , make sure you seek my views.

I am not judging you personally, I am judging your judgement and your actions.

Yes i played with the former Japanese player. He thought he had me cowering and i palyed the frieghtened player well. I posted to him how greatful i was of his help, i needed him. In truth i used him. Ask how much better his warriors would have been exploring his own island back then to find his own IRON. But no i got his two warriors in my land fighting barbarians. saved me having to fight a 3 front war with barbd lng enough to get what i wanted. The former jap leader was too arrogant and mouthy. You can see from his posts how he thought he could conquer the world. All this fell into my plans.

Again Ras, what have I told you in IMs about giving away too much information? It isn't wise.

So dont be upset Capo. I only reveal things if the other player is trying to lie publicly.

If you are the type of player that lies in PMs or in Open then i udnerstand your need to not send any more PMs.

I am not sending you PMs because I don't need things I thought were private to be revealed. You didn't ONLY reveal things pertaining to your dealings, you also revealed issues concerning Maya and Korea. And while they didn't involve our own PMs to you, or our own PMs to Japan it was still unnecessary and shows that you were simply putting up a bunch of PMs to try and paint Japan in a bad light, including using PMs from the old Japanese player which should have nothing to do with this one.

Howver if you are an open and honest player that doesnt lie , but simply doesnt always reveal al lthe truth, then you hav enothing to fear.

And you certainly had no issue with me sharing other PM information to you via IM........ about other civs....

And there is a difference here. In an IM there is nothing I can do about it once you type it in, I can't put white-out on my monitor. Further I never asked, and you willingly offered the information you gave me. I am not going to repeat what you told me, and I had no intention of bringing it up, but that is your own business and that is, again, a private conversation. This is as public as possible. There are countries who have no contact with you that will get this information now, I just feel it was in bad form.

[Pitboss Korea]

Originally posted by Pitboss Rome
As to faking wars, I must say I can imagine this happening in RL.

Example please? No two countries have ever got together and said, hey let's pretend that we are at war with eachother. That's ridiculous, especially have a real one where they kill eachother and destroy eachother's property just to make it look real.

Its just ridiculous.

[Pitboss Rome]

By fake I meant just declaring war pro forma.

[Pitboss Vikings]

Originally posted by Pitboss Korea


Example please? No two countries have ever got together and said, hey let's pretend that we are at war with eachother. That's ridiculous, especially have a real one where they kill eachother and destroy eachother's property just to make it look real.

Its just ridiculous.

you need to read a few more conspiracyt sites..

I liek conspiracy sites...

Many wars were only done for other reasons

Look at the whole Iraq war, was it about WOMD or Saddam no it about oil and world prices....

The Crusades were not about religion but about land grabs in th emid east.

I could go on and on , but many wars are fouht not for the reason people think but for reasons behind the scenes

The war with japan may hav ebee staged and manipualted by both sides, but it was real to the soldiers in the field.

[MMC]

I think the term Cold War would probably be a better description than Fake War. For the most part, it can easily (although not always) be the same thing.