Capo is an idiot!

[Pitboss Vikings]

unfortunalty in current game it not used at all!!!!!!!

well not by all.

[The Capo]

What time issue?

[OzzyKP]

The issue of 8 other people in the game telling you to hurry the **** up and finish your turn and stop holding up the game. In Pitboss you don't have to wait for anyone, and thus no one is hurrying you through your turn. You can take all the time you like.

[The Capo]

Oh, well, it seems like the pitboss games will take forever and it also seems like people can decide quite easily to pretty much remove themselves from the diplomacy aspect of the game. You guys have what? 18 people in your pitboss game right now and I've only seen maybe four or five of them posting regularly, and as I've said before the posts aren't exactly as good as I've seen in past diplogames.

I don't like knocking things I haven't tried (or do I?) but as it seems I won't be able to try it for a long time I'd say that the pitboss style is not the best style for a diplogame to utilize. I'd suggest the next game not be done in that style. If that means we have a smaller/limited roster than so be it.

[Pinchak]

I've only seen maybe four or five of them posting regularly, and as I've said before the posts aren't exactly as good as I've seen in past diplogames.

With regards to number of posts and posting regularly, you have to put it in perspective. The four or five you refer to are actually posting excessively IMO. If everyone posted as often as they did we would have pages upon pages added daily which would be too much.

Considering we will be hitting about 30 turns a month, I think one post a month is about approprate.

I will agree though, everyone should have at least posted once in the story thread by now.

Regarding quality, I think it is just a matter of peoples individual creativity/ability, and the fact that not much interesting is going on yet. I am confident the latter will change as the game gets rolling.

[The Capo]

Well, this is just an issue of preference obviously.

Although I will say that one post a month is extremely low, there should be at least a few posts a week in my opinion.

Now, you are right about the e-mail thing, the only difference is that this also depends on the enthusiasm of the player. If you are in a game that goes for three hours, like they traditionally did, you would talk to the person as events transpired. With pitboss it seems you rely on the player to check his e-mails regularly; while there are probably going to be players who do this, I would be one of them due to my enthusiasm for such games, there are going to be a great many players who will fail to engage in diplomacy simply because of this. In a game it is easier to get people to talk.

Obviously there are pros and cons to both styles. I think if something goes down it would be handled better in the game rather than through e-mails, I think there will be situations where an e-mail won't be received in time for a proper reaction. I can also see that this may reflect the real world (especially in early times when contact was slow), but I think in the later stages of the game this would become a bit unrealistic. This is also unfortunately when the game gets slower due to more units, larger map, etc.

I also liked the time between sessions because it gave you more time to address issues and to maybe change people's minds. As I've said though; I haven't played a pitboss game so I don't have much of a leg to stand on in this debate.

It just seems to me that on its face the pitboss game seems lacking compared to the normal game.

I do however recognize some pros behind it, and I also understand the problems with connection issues.

[Pinchak]

With pitboss it seems you rely on the player to check his e-mails regularly

This is one reason I initially argued against the "plomp" email system being used. Even as an avid player I usually only check it every so many days, and there is no notification to let me know when I get a new message.

IMO it would have been alot easier to just use apolymail linked to the anon login, but alas this was shot down due to "it would fill up" and "you can't send pictures".

The first reason just doesn't make sense to me, and the second is pretty weak.

Apolyton is overall a poorly constructed website, and the limitations of apolymail is just one example of why. If it wasn't for the smaller, more close knit community I would have probably bounced to CF long ago.

[Toni]

I've started to enjoy much more the pitboss style currently.

1. No tech issues
2. No wasting time on waiting for people to show up for session.
2. Enough time to think about your move
3. Plan strategy
4. No quitters due to RL
5. You appreciate each unit, imp you build and city you plan much more then reg diplo.

OH and lets not FORGET we have 18 players

and so much more.....

CS and Pin thumbs up for this Pitboss Diplo idea

[deity]

Originally posted by Toni
I've started to enjoy much more the pitboss style currently.

1. No tech issues
2. No wasting time on waiting for people to show up for session.
2. Enough time to think about your move
3. Plan strategy
4. No quitters due to RL
5. You appreciate each unit, imp you build and city you plan much more then reg diplo.

OH and lets not FORGET we have 18 players

and so much more.....

CS and Pin thumbs up for this Pitboss Diplo idea

Agree 100%.

Plus, I notice things I didn't before - little things like losing shields if you start building something (by mistake) and switch to another build. Go back to the earlier build later on and shields are reduced. I knew this was in the game design but beverr noticed it before. Losing 2 shields in a normal game = so what. Lose it in pitboss and oh my god! I wasted 2 shields!!

Playing on valium means I take heaps of time to look at everything and this increases enjoyment.

I don't see barbs in this game - are they there? Or did the lack of huts reduce them?

[deity]

Regarding posting:

My view has always been different to Capo's and ozzy's. I don't like introverted fantasy about the inner workings of your civ.

My preference is that all posting is based on game play only and build a story around that.

Otherwise you get way too many posts for some players and very little from others who can't compete.

The fantasy is good reading if you have the time but sometimes rather boring.

This is just the way I see it but I don't want to dispirit those with the creative flair.

I guess a middle ground by all players would be great which would make it easier to set a few hard and fast diplo rules - like ALL GAME PLAY MUST BE BACKED BY STORY POSTS. However I think surprise attacks are OK as long as backed up.

[Pitboss Vikings]

providing the background story is what is affecting the in game story deity then it is ok.

Japans story of infigihting at moment is obviously leading to something, i wont be surprised to see the result of his current storys leading to war elsewhere.

[Toni]

Hey Capo looks like there is a spot for you in the pitboss diplo.

Korea just quit - want to take over?

That civ pass is 1234

Let us know ASAP please, because they may be another player interested (Krill)

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by deity
Regarding posting:

My view has always been different to Capo's and ozzy's. I don't like introverted fantasy about the inner workings of your civ.

My preference is that all posting is based on game play only and build a story around that.

Otherwise you get way too many posts for some players and very little from others who can't compete.

The fantasy is good reading if you have the time but sometimes rather boring.

This is just the way I see it but I don't want to dispirit those with the creative flair.

I guess a middle ground by all players would be great which would make it easier to set a few hard and fast diplo rules - like ALL GAME PLAY MUST BE BACKED BY STORY POSTS. However I think surprise attacks are OK as long as backed up.

I always use stories to explain some in-game action or accomplish some diplomatic objective.

Like in this last game, I wrote a long thing about the Jefferson Code. It wasn't just a creative, fantasy post, it was an additional justification for why America needed the Islam holy city, because it was now our holy city as well. When I wrote about the American Civil War I switched civics and there was a period of disorder in the game, I used the Civil War as the story explanation for that period of anarchy in the game.

Perhaps my Metalhead posts didn't have a huge basis in the game (though there was some, like mentioning the creation of religion and inventing bronze working, etc) but I was introducing my civ since there wasn't much going on that early. Even so, there was still a good deal based in the game directly.

I accomplish a lot in my stories.

[Toni]

Capo let us know if you want Korea please.

[The Capo]

I guess I'll take it, what do I do?