Pitboss Diplomacy Game

[Pinchak]

I'm tired of seeing *that* civ in every single MP game.

Yeah, I was a bit annoyed to see Inca show up AGAIN in this game. With 18 civs though I guess I should have expected it.

About the only thing more overpowered then FIN/IND would be IND/PHI which has been purposely left out by the developers.

Due to the obsession with peace that seems to haunt most diplogames, traits like FIN, PHI, IND become even more powerful then in a standard game.

I think most of the anamosity Ozzy has with Toni's choice stems from the fact that Ozzy adhered to the discussed "civ ban for pros" while others ignored it. Can't say I blame him.

With 18 players however the "pros" are going to have a run for their money me thinks. Expecially if they are "found out" by us noobs. This is going to be a very interesting game at any rate.

[Beta]

Picked my civ.

[OzzyKP]

Looks like Deity didn't even obey it, and he suggested it.

Your analysis is quite accurate. FIN & IND are definitely more powerful in diplogames because of the peace obsession. People so rarely take risks, or it is too hard to topple the leader so the game stagnates. The people on top (i.e. Deity, Toni and I in every game so far) start on top and finish on top. Then people complain about how little mobility there is in the game and get frustrated. But of course then we have built up a sizable lead at that point and it makes it even less likely others will try to topple us.

For my part though, in most of my games I have been conscious of this and tried to handicap myself unilaterally. Like when I picked the Arabs, I picked them for their RP possibilities, not for their traits or UB/UU. Protective is a crap trait. Plus instead of staying peaceful all game like Deity and Toni try to do, I deliberately picked fights because it was more of a risk for me and thus more of a chance for others to catch up. (Plus it was more fun dammit).

I rarely ever pick FIN cause I think it is a very powerful trait and too easy to use. It always bothers me when Vets pick it. It seems like such a cop-out from players who can obviously excel with any civ, why do they need an overpowered trait on top of it?

I'm not as optimistic as Pin is about this game being different. In all the Civ4 diplogames thus played I haven't seen a single one (of the ones I've been involved in) that didn't have most or all of Deity, Toni and I on top.

HOTW V - I won, my main rival through the whole game was... Deity.
HOTW VII - Top three players: Ozzy, Toni, Deity
HOTW VIII - Top two players: Toni & Deity (I had really crappy land and Pin crippled me with a very early war I wasn't ready for... good job btw).
HOTW XI - Top two players: Toni & Deity (I wasn't in it)
HOTW XII - Well... I won't say, but there isn't much of a secret who is on top in this one.

If Frank was ever able to actually see a game through from beginning to end he'd be in this category too. It was the same story in Civ2 as well. Same people always on top.

I'm kinda tired of seeing all the games end up exactly the same. A small handicap like staying away from FIN and IND probably wouldn't hurt good players like Toni, Deity and I too much, but I think it is just bad for the game to give overpowered players overpowered traits.

[OzzyKP]

And maybe it is too late too make people change without messing up anonymous, but to me at least it seemed clear that we were going ahead with the plan and it sucks to see no one actually followed through. I have little doubt this game will end up like all the others.

Also, when newer and/or less dominant players pick more creatively it indicates to me that they are trying to spice up the game, or focus on diplomacy, or try new things. When good players who always win always pick the strongest civs every single game it indicates that their only objective from the beginning is to win it all (which they usually do) and have less of a concern about the actual diplo parts, which I think is bad for the game.

[OzzyKP]

On a more cheerful note, can we pick a cool name for this game?

HOTW has been played out, we should use something new for the Pitboss, and "Pitboss Diplomacy Game" isn't nearly epic enough.

Some ideas:
The Saga of Time
Out Of The Mist
Epic of Man (this name might be cursed though)
Diplomacy Through Time
Man's Epic Journey
The Saga of Struggle
Man's Struggle
The Saga of Man's Struggle
Tales Through Time
World Tales from the History of the Front
Master of the Pit (Pitboss, get it? ha ha..)
An Epic Retelling of Time
The Tale of Time
The Gods Watch On
Letters of Consequence

[MMC]

Welcome to the Diplo-pit?

[MMC]

Actually... I think Firaxis got it right... this game should be called Test of Time.

[Pinchak]

I have little doubt this game will end up like all the others.

Pretty assumptive of you considering the game hasn't even started. I do see your point however.

I have doubt though that it will be as cut and dry as that. Primarily (and ironicly) due to this most recent discussion. Call it a self-unfulfilling prophecy if you will.

There are two major factors in this particular game that may break the traditional winners circle...

1. Pittboss. Players can sit and plot their moves for hours if they wish. No more rush. No more advantage for those well versed in the finer points of real time multiplayer.

2. 18 civs. This is going to change the dynamics of the game in a major way. From a sheer mathamatical view, any single players chance of winning or placing is reduced. In addition, the more players the greater chance that other high quality players will be involved.

Personally, if a civ/leader was to be banned I would have wanted it across the board.

When you pros lose in this one, I don't want any excuses.

When good players who always win always pick the strongest civs every single game it indicates that their only objective from the beginning is to win it all (which they usually do) and have less of a concern about the actual diplo parts, which I think is bad for the game.

I fully agree.

[Wittlich]

Or shortened: DipPit (although it sounds like an insult) - but it is simple, and to the point.

EDIT: Crosspost: And I concur with Pinchaks reasoning.

[Blackdragon921]

i like "Master of the Pit" the best.

[Pinchak]

I vote for "Test of Time" as well.

Simple, and with a game window of over 2 years it really will be a test of time.

Epic of Man (this name might be cursed though)

Cursed? Do tell. An otherwise good name IMO.

[MMC]

Originally posted by Wittlich
Or shortened: DipPit (although it sounds like an insult) - but it is simple, and to the point.

I like to Dippit, Dippit! I like to... DIPPIT!

[Wittlich]

Exactly

[MMC]

Is it just me or is Wittlich yet to disagree with anyone about anything?

Let's put it to the test...

Wittlich, you shall be my Vassal for as long as it is possible in the game. In exchange, you will get another cookie.

*Hands over the first cookie that was promised to Wittlich*

[Rasputin]

ok i got a simple solution for all this concern over who is going to win cause they have a Fin Trait.

Lets all gang up immmedaiatly on all Fin Traited civs.

Ozzy please supply a list of all Civs in this game that are FIN I hereby decree on behalf of my people that a Jihad is called on all FIN civs.

Lets unite and not let them use the FIN to their advantage.

I rember only too well people letting certain civs grow too big before attacking. Lets get the warriers out there and destroy all there roads and farms and cottages.

Death to the FIN tribes.

Dont forget Ozzy give us a list of the EVIL tribes.

Cause i dont know what civs have what traits.