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  • Help Guide the Roman Ruling Council

    ROME NEEDS YOUR VOTE!

    In the History of the World XI game, the world has emerged from a chaotic war triggered by the American Jihad. Rome sided with its long-time ally the Dutch to crush the Jihad before it spread to our lands. The war was a military success but diplomatic failure of sorts.

    Subsequent squabbling between the Roman Senate and the ruling class of professional public servants and military leaders led to an impasse that crippled Rome for several months. Agreement was reached on a new form of governance with the creation of the Roman Ruling Council. Administrative manners were dealt with quickly, which then brought the discussion to the most pressing matter - what direction Rome should take in foreign affairs.

    You are a Senator or a leading member of the Roman public service or a General in the army. You get a vote in where Rome goes from here.

    To guide your vote - here are the excerpts from the second meeting of the Ruling Council.

    Julius (Chief Senator Elect): Well gentlemen, last week's meeting went well. We dealt with the agenda of clarifying all the administrative and governance details. I commend us all for our diligence in pushing through that mundane work (chuckles from around the room).

    And as we agreed, we would deal primarily with our foreign affairs issues at this meeting. First, to Marshall Sulla and Admiral Petronius

    Sulla (Marshall of the Army): The army needs to be modernised. That is a fact. We still have one of the largest militaries in the world, and its esprit de corps is excellent. But weaponry has improved, and we have not kept up. This should be a priority for Rome.

    Petronius (Admiral of the Navy): I support Marshall Sulla on this. The navy is fine condition and well trained after the American conflict, but if we were to fight abroad again, the troops we land need to be better armed. But I could use a few more frigates to ensure our dominace in the southern sea.

    Julian: Thank you gentlemen. Your request are noted, and from what I can see, have the support of the council. They will be included in the budget. Caecelius, the floor is yours.

    Caecelius (Head of Foreign Affairs): Where to begin dear colleagues? To start with, the aftermath of the American war. As you are aware, our Dutch allies either captured or razed a number of American cities before the conflict ended ...

    Sulla: Serves the Americans right ... all that blather about a "Jihad" with little military strength to back it up. What a bother they are.

    Caecelius: I can't disagree with you Sulla. But despite that, the Dutch standing in world opinion was harmed. And to a certain extent, we are tainted as well for our involvement in the war and our alliance with the Dutch. Also, my sources tell me that the Portuguese in fact see us somewhat as a Dutch-puppet.

    Julius: The same Portuguese who made the offer of a Trans-Romanic trading block?

    Caecelius: Indeed. The very same. I will come to that in a moment. But to close the book on America, one might want to say that until they have bite to back up their bark, we have little reason to pay them much attention, but that would be making a mistake. For some reason - be it that Islamic belief of theirs, or the wild and charismatic leaders that come to power, they have more sway over world affairs than they should. To be honest, there are many in the diplomatic circles around the world, and many in this room, who would have been just as happy if the Dutch had finished what they started.

    And that brings us to the Portuguese, America's main ally. In the past they have been critical, almost disdainful of Rome, and its relations with its allies. Historically, there is little to bring us closer to the Portuguese. But history is the past and we must look to the future. To that end, I am distributing a report done by Reinius, the head of foreign policy, on the pros and cons of improved relations with the Portuguese.

    Admiral Petronius: And keep in mind gentlemen, that seapower and the improved capabilities of ships can drastically alter the geo-political situation we are facing. We had the upper had for awhile in naval affairs. That is no longer the case. And the sea also opens up new trading possibilities, as no doubt the foreign affairs report will high-light.

    Caecelius: Thank you for that Petronius. Closer to home, our relations with the Incans remains solid, despite the lack of active dialogue between the two of us. That is the way it has historically been, and I see it as function of the trust that exists between our two nations. The Incans were openly critical of the Dutch razing of cities. So I am not sure where the Dutch and Incans stand now relative to each other. And regarding the Incans, I am tabling a second report, this one authored by Marius of the diplomatic corps and Chief Senator Elect Julian ( a nod to Julian) on the potential for the creation of an Alliance of Independent and Non-Alligned Civilizations (AINAC). If approved by this council, we would approach the Incans first.

    And then there is our alliance with our old stalwarts, the Dutch. We are still on excellent terms with them as well as our other friends, but we need to determine if this is where Rome's future lies. The American affair has given everyone food for thought. Reinius' department, with input from Marshall Sulla who handled much of the military co-operation recently with the Dutch, have prepared a third report regarding our age old alliance, and whether we maintain the status quo, work to strengthen it, or loosen our ties in favour of other options.

    Senator Polusia: Correct me if I am wrong sir, but it seems the three options on the table are by definition, mutually exclusive.

    Caecelius: For the most part they are. Entertaining the Portuguese proposal for a trans-Romanic trading block will necessarily mean loosening of ties with the Dutch. These are weighty matters, gentlemen.

    Julian: And keep in mind, Rome's fourth option. Independent isolationism. No alliances. Trade where we can. Grow as we do.

    So, there are the options. You have the reports. We vote on this in one weeks time.

    All senators and all heads of departments and their directors and all generals and all rear-admirals get to vote. Think wisely. Think of Rome.

    Strength and Honour!
    So, please take the time to vote. Also, if you could please make up a character for yourself and explain your vote and try to convince others. Democracy in action!
    14
    Work with the Portuguese on the concept of a trans-Romanic trading bloc.
    50.00%
    7
    Establish the Alliance of Independent and Non-Aligned Civilizations, and encourage others to join.
    7.14%
    1
    Maintain our historical relationship with the Dutch and our other allies.
    7.14%
    1
    Adhere to a strict independent and isolationist policy.
    28.57%
    4
    abstain through lack of knowledge or interest or both.
    7.14%
    1

    The poll is expired.

    Last edited by Beta; January 4, 2008, 16:36.
    Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

  • #2
    Senator Gaius has voted 'isolationistic'.
    We've made mistakes in our foreign politics in recent years. It's better to back off now and concentrate on our inner affairs, and see what the world outside becomes.
    Formerly known as "CyberShy"
    Carpe Diem tamen Memento Mori

    Comment


    • #3
      Thank you Senator Gaius for your valued opinion.

      Next.
      Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

      Comment


      • #4
        I disagree with Senator Gaius, if we become isolated we may risk another fanatical religious movement, or another army like those of the dutch burning and pillaging with impunity. The Portugese have been right, we must revisit the plan for the Trans-Romanic trading bloc. Through this we will have better influence over our enemies and friends alike, and not simply military influence.

        Besides, if military reforms are our goal increased trade and thus income through a bloc of this nature would help greatly.

        -Senator Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa
        "Our cause is in the hands of fate. We can not guarantee success. But we can do something better; we can deserve it." -John Adams


        One Love.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by CyberShy
          Senator Gaius has voted 'isolationistic'.
          We've made mistakes in our foreign politics in recent years. It's better to back off now and concentrate on our inner affairs, and see what the world outside becomes.
          With friends like you who needs enemies!
          "Old age and skill will overcome youth and treachery. "
          *deity of THE DEITIANS*
          icq: 8388924

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by The Capo
            I disagree with Senator Gaius, if we become isolated we may risk another fanatical religious movement, or another army like those of the dutch burning and pillaging with impunity. The Portugese have been right, we must revisit the plan for the Trans-Romanic trading bloc. Through this we will have better influence over our enemies and friends alike, and not simply military influence.

            Besides, if military reforms are our goal increased trade and thus income through a bloc of this nature would help greatly.

            -Senator Marcus Vipsanius Agrippa
            Yay Capo!

            With friends like you who needs friends!
            "Old age and skill will overcome youth and treachery. "
            *deity of THE DEITIANS*
            icq: 8388924

            Comment


            • #7


              Thank you for your input Senator Agrippa.
              Cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war .... aw, forget that nonsense. Beer, please.

              Comment


              • #8
                The long speech Part I

                Out of current character:
                I’m assuming that the thread is free for all, and that it is still open. I’ve read the story thread and found it most entertaining. Feel free to disregard this message. I'm sorry for the Inca bashing if it is unwaranted, but they *are* the filithy capitalists. I’m assuming that Rome is comparable to 19th century Europe tech wise, since it sports frigates while the seemingly advanced Incas have recently discovered oil and uranium and have functioning assembly lines.


                Senator Heraclitus steps forward, dressed in the
                neo-traditional toga, all the assembled men expecting nothing traditional from the extreme social reform supporter.

                “I have come before you to say, in good conscience, what must be said…”

                /a similarly dressed man exclaims/: "As long as it is not about the bloody plebeians again! You seem to be able to link any topic to the mob!" /a few sporadic laughs, and muffled snickering at the comment/

                “… that even though many of you consider me a political outcast, despite might I remark, my honorable service to the Roman empire and my illustrious if by my humble opinion irrelevant family past. Our foreign affairs need to be rethought in the context of our socio-economic position and the inevitable triumph of the materialistic sciences…”

                /mocking voice/: "Oh happy day! Look the crazed Byzantine Greek, the mindless philosopher, the leader of the plebeteriath, the crypto-atheist-Christian has been sent by the gods to tell us what is right!"

                /different man, dressed in Incan stlye/: "And to cure our ailing eyes our so that they may see that right is in fact left! "

                /laughter, the plebeian representatives begin demanding order. So it is done. Heraclitus does not stop however/:

                “… I see that good willed discussion is not welcome here. It disturbs the peace of mind of our dear senators and generals. It is so tiresome, these deliberations obviously only cause unneeded and uncalled for changes to the magnificent well oiled /a grinning glance at Caesar/ bureaucratic government institutions. Especially considering the impeccable performance of our foreign ministry.”

                /laughter as audible as is to be expected. Heraclitus continues with an ever more aggressive tone/:

                Strife is the judge of men, this is held true both by my philosophy and the classic virtues of Rome. And strife we shall have my fellow citizens! If not by our disgruntled masses than by the hostile forces of foreign powers! In neither case shall there be peace through ignorance or through /mocking tone/ splendid isolation .”

                “My call for the global institution of free religion is no secret and is supported by common sense and is strategically sound in our particular case. Religion has caused too much suffering in this world. Freedom to it or from it has also been a boon to the fabulously wealthy pragmatist Incas. Oh, wise of us to begin forming such an alliance of the “independent” and invite the Incas off all people to join. I thought we were tired of being “the muscle”? Of being “the pawn”?
                Last edited by Heraclitus; January 8, 2008, 15:46.
                Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                Comment


                • #9
                  The long speech part II & resignation

                  And the Incas are some of the finest puppet master I have seen. They are well poised to become the global hegemon. The meetings concerning the upset global balance have an ominous ring to them. International commerce must flow, as the Incan banker would say even over Roman bodies!! Mark my words: There may come a day when we will call them master, and we will be all too happy to fetch.

                  /Equestrian politican/ "How do dare you speak of our friendly neighbors and brothers to the south!!? You bring shame to this house, with such unprovoked words!!"
                  /someone/ "Order, we shall have order!"

                  "How much money have *you* dear banker received from trade with the Incas? Too much I'd venture to guess, I bet they have received two gold for any one that has found its way into Roman coffers, speaking of which: What of the states coffers, the modernization of our large army is an added expense on top of its support!


                  It is a wise proverb that all allies weaken and enemies strengthen. But we all year for justice and peace. How can we chose the lesser evil? Who will weaken us the least? My message is of trade with whichever weak state that is willing. Mine is a message of global revolution. My message is of technological progress at
                  ANY COST, even military means are not to be forsake in the fight against repression. For justice must be dispensed by the righteous against the wicked!

                  I do not trust the Dutch one bit, but choosing them, which we know to be short on certain resources, ensures that we will not be their future targets. They have some noble friends though: the Ethiopians. They could be part of a true coalition of independence, with their honest desire for justice! But the Dutch are painted as little more than puppets or should I say trusted confidents of the Incas themselves, as are we to my dismay.

                  I vote for Portugal, I distrust them and their convenient conversion,their propaganda and interesting change of goverment as well. That is the reason why I think that at the very least we should demand societal reform such as:

                  - the permanent renouncement of the realization of political aims of Islam and all extremist religius movements.
                  - all attempts should be made at creating better relationships between them and their former enemies, since only such a world can be made safe for human rights.

                  Maybe if the Ethiopians are persuaded, they could eventually join this “Latin Union”. And if that is to occur, why should the Byzantines be excluded or any nation that seeks knowledge rather than power over their fellow men or wealth at the expense of the working class?

                  /As sporadic praise and far more prevalent hostile shouting erupts, Heraclitus signs and displays a resignation papers effective in one week. He shouts over the other voices:/

                  “I refuse to live in a society of half measures! We are democracy or empire, either is better than what we are now! Lackeys or the future liberators of our world! We are enlightened or we are power hungry! We are either wise or naive! Strong or weak! We can and never shall be both!!"

                  Heraclitus’s few followers had convinced him to turn the simple advisory meeting into an opportunity for political gain. The effect of this on his popularity or lack of there of are hard to judge, they were very dependent on the stance that the then very much respected Caesar would take. His stance to allying Rome with Lisbon was shared by a majority on the council, his tone and the proposed radical shift in policy and aim were the cause of contraversy. Many senators viewed the stunt as a classical exercise of demagogy, quite worth copying.

                  In his last book, the only one published in his last ten years of life he appears to be quite conflicted by idealism and the realities of the often Machiavellian Roman and Global politics, with a profound sense of guilt that he enjoys such games, even if he didn't actively pursue them. Further complications are his renewed interest in the Byzantine culture of his immigrant grandfather, that conflicted with his life-long Roman patriotism. A clear portrait of his belief's is because of these and other factors very difficult to piece together.
                  Last edited by Heraclitus; January 8, 2008, 17:57.
                  Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                  The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                  The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Great work Heraclitus

                    You will be a great addition to HOTW 12 - So please join us

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Go with the future and not the past.

                      Portuguesse Trading Bloc
                      *"Winning is still the goal, and we cannot win if we lose (gawd, that was brilliant - you can quote me on that if you want. And con - I don't want to see that in your sig."- Beta

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Brilliant Heraclitus!!

                        Excellent stuff, besides the fact that it suits my Portuguese
                        "Old age and skill will overcome youth and treachery. "
                        *deity of THE DEITIANS*
                        icq: 8388924

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I didn't realize deity was Portugal!

                          Can I change my vote?
                          "Our cause is in the hands of fate. We can not guarantee success. But we can do something better; we can deserve it." -John Adams


                          One Love.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012

                            When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - Rah

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Modern man calls walking more quickly in the same direction down the same road “change.”
                              The world, in the last three hundred years, has not changed except in that sense.
                              The simple suggestion of a true change scandalizes and terrifies modern man. -Nicolás Gómez Dávila

                              Comment

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