History of the World 8 - Organisation Thread (Pt2)

[EmperorPenguin]

Ok looks like im going to get in ! That is good news for my allies and bad news for my Victu... eh I mean rivals. Just ask my good friend trev!!! Excited to play.

your Rival EmperorPenguin

[condor223]

I might need a sub on the 27th, as I am not sure if I will be home in time to play.

[Robert]

Originally posted by EmperorPenguin
Ok looks like im going to get in ! That is good news for my allies and bad news for my Victu... eh I mean rivals. Just ask my good friend trev!!! Excited to play.

your Rival EmperorPenguin

Which empire are you going to sub for?
I need to know if I'm gonna be your allie or your eneme

Pinchak: Oh, good, cuz the Inca are next on the Zulu hit list!

You may have seen that I did already worry about a zulu invasion and that I've made sure that there's a blockade between you and me :P (CS = +100 diplopoints!)

I might need a sub on the 27th, as I am not sure if I will be home in time to play.

Ah, I guess that Penguin subs for you!?

I myself may miss the week after, friday 3rd? (or 4th? too lazy to look it up)

[Pinchak]

I've made sure that there's a blockade between you and me :P

Who... Ozzy?

Never fear... Mandela is back in power.

[Robert]

Originally posted by Pinchak


Who... Ozzy?

sssst, don't tell him! I convinced him that he got that city of me out of charity and he still has to donate a settler to me for it

[dacole]

Ok the americans were involved in some of the behind the scenes stuff for this war as I hope my new story post when I get it done will show, sorry for the delay between putting it up. As well he is right in that it was even to start out with...oh great work on hinbuddhism though I'm going to have to bring you to task in character now

[The Capo]

I guess a lot of you don't really give a ****, but I'd like to say that the war and ensuing debate has made me very happy. I think, if you all don't mind, I'd like to interject a few points...

1) I don't think that wars of opportunity should be ruled out of diplogames; in fact they are good to keep the game going and to change the balance of power in the world.

2) As far as Cybershy's point on the "Muslim-Christian" issue; he didn't mean to say that a religion can't turn on its own principles (they often do), or even that two different religions can't co-exist. I think what he really meant was that when one religion engages in a policy of aggressive expansion, such as a Jihad, another religion SHOULD take offense to this policy. Obviously it is up to the leadership of the other (in this case Christian) religion to determine a response, but I think that the populace of that nation would also have a say in the matter, whether officially or otherwise.

3) As far as distance from a conflict, or the lack of "CNN" goes, I'd say to ignore that. The point of the game is to utilize diplomacy. So if a nation that is far, or even accross an ocean from a diplomatic situation wishes to become involved that is their decision, it is wholly up to the two nations involved in the dispute to determine how much influence others have in it.

4) Finally; I think I am well on record saying that the destruction of a capital/population for the purpose of ending a war or making a statement to either the world or the nation one is attacking is fully acceptable in an OOC fashion. Within the game it is, again, up to the individual leaders personalities, the form of government, their ideology, religion, relationship to the nations involved, or the will of the people to determine a proper response. If France burns Washington, and the English decide to abhore it, France can't complain that England is far away and has nothing to do with it... they should just burn London.

-Peace

[Pinchak]

Interesting post Capo.

In responce to #2, i'll admit i took the example a little too literally. After further discussion I see exactly the point Cyber was trying to make.

In responce to #3, I still think it is a little odd when we haven't discovered writing yet, but civs on the other side of the world are reacting to conflicts that incontext they would never even know about. Not sure there is a real easy fix for this, besides perhaps people taking it upon themselfs to think more incontext.

[dacole]

Hi capo did you come up with this style of play? If so cuddos it is great fun!

[Pinchak]

I think Ozzy pioneered Diplo format.

[deity]

Originally posted by Pinchak
I guess what I am trying to say is that nations get TOO protective when war is waged. They do indeed treat it as if it were taboo. When I was battling the Carthagens, I didn't see one nation that supported the war or was indifferent to it. Everyone clammored for peace... like they were afraid nuclear war was going to break out.

As time goes on, I could see this as realistic (expecially after the establishment of the UN). But anything before 1000AD should not be a world discussion IMO. It's not like they had CNN back then.

I think you can't fully analogise the game to reality. I mean units are representative; buildings are representative; movement is representative - it's all happening in a representative way over time. It's not litoral - but the game play gives a sense of instantaneous realism.

It's a style of play that encourages all civs to get involved and push their diplo-line. You can't complain about that. If you'd been a war-monger handling this in a way that brought other civs (allies) with you the outcome might have been different.

But you persisted as one member of the Eastern Alliance determined ALONE to follow a course of action against advice. If you lost your nerve in taking Carthage it was because of the in-game diplo pressure (although OOC there is a strong view in the majority of the diplo community that taking caps is poor form - despite what Capo says!)

So feel free to make your own judgements and play accordingly and take the consequences.

I'll do the same. Others will too.

[deity]

John Barbarossa was the one who pionered diplo games in Civ2 - "Tales from the Diplomatic Front" I think; which included two players that are in our current HOTW8 game!! Glohithia and Cybershy.

Capo followed closely with HOTW series and he together with ozzy truely crafted the genre.

[Pinchak]

Interesting to know the history behind this format.

[Pinchak]

Just for the record, i didn't "lose my nerve to take Carthage".

The reality of it was, taking Carthage was a bluff to meet other objectives without drawing the war out any longer then nessasary, while also weakening the Carthagens a bit so I don't have to worry about revenge in the near future.

In the name of keeping the game fun, I wouldn't have burned Beta's capital. The fact that such an action would also bring much hostitity to me helped secure that decision.

Regarding the wishes of the alliance...

Beta was gearing up to attack me. I delt with it as I saw fit. The Zulu will not be the attack dog of any alliance, following orders according to how others who are not even directly involved in the war think it should be fought.

[deity]

Originally posted by Pinchak
Just for the record, i didn't "lose my nerve to take Carthage".

The reality of it was, taking Carthage was a bluff to meet other objectives without drawing the war out any longer then nessasary....