Diplogames Rule Discussion Thread

[LzPrst]

Personally, I believe that only trading techs you invented is just as ridiculous as the other ideas, when it comes to enforcing it. My main idea was simply to introduce the concept of forcing a wait between trades, by requiring an 'emissary' to be sent or each trade. This would slow down tech trades, as until the invention of radio, there would be no practical way of updating the emissary on what he is allowed to trade. Thus only the techs that have already been put forward before either party sees what the other party is putting forward could be traded.

I understand your idea mmc, but it will be way more effort than it is worth imo. once again. I firmly believe that we will be honorable enough to not break any rules that are agreed upon. judges and such should not be needed. I will not tarnish the game by cheating and I believe that neither will my coplayers. If we cant trust eachother enough to be honorable, then I dont want to play. this is a gentlemens game and winning is not the only thing. having fun during the game is the main point. this is why we play diplogames and not blazing quickgames. if winning is so important to some people that they will break the rules we lay down then they dont belong in a diplogame IMO.

now to something completely different. the reason for trying to delay the tech advance is the same reason we are playing marathon length and not quick. we want to enjoy the full game and that includes playing through the different eras.

the Trade Only Researched Techs rule (hereby abbreviated as TORT) is one attempt at prolonging the enjoyment of the game by avoiding the "I just built my first spearman, next turn he's obsolete"-syndrome which makes the game less fun, imo. being part of a tech race is a good thing, having it result in never experiencing a particular phase of the game is not.

expanding on MMC's thinking could be to limit tech trading to civs you share a border with (or whos borders you can reach from your borders with your boats in one turn), until a certain tech is invented.

it would reduce the overall tech trade early in the game and is sort of realistic as developed sciences didnt jump across continents (until the discovery of the printing press at least). I will name this rule\idea PRETT (ProximityREstrainedTechTrading).

combine that with TORT and I think we just might have what we need, at least for the early game. of course it wont help from the mid/late game and out, but it might push in the right direction.

For the mid/late game situation we would just have to ask for restraint and hope people are paranoid enough to keep tech trading down.

It is either this or a tech trade pr number of turns limit.

now when it comes to enforcing. as I said above, if we cant trust eachother to act honorably then we should either not be playing or not have any rules. but I do believe that some kind of rules are necessary to limit tech-whoring, which is unrealistic and detrimental to the overall development of the game.

perhaps we should just go for NTT. it isnt very realistic, but neither is instantspread, and IMO they both reduce game quality. this is why we could make some rules that will give us a middle road. but all in all, I think I would rather have NTT than techwhoring. though everyone will probably be financial then...

[Frank Johnson]

I am very flexible with this issue, and would rather see the game move forward with as many established players as possible rather than fight over it. Ultimately the is fun because of the people involved, and I intend to work in whatever framework we agree on, that said I hope whatever it is is a simple solution that everyone can more or less agree to. Ultimately weither techs are traded or not isn't important as weither the game gets played in a timely manner or not. I don't want to argue about techs for a month. I'd rather have us get our act together and play the game in two weeks time. That might be optimistic, but it's what I'd really like.

I endorse the TORT method, since it makes it worth it to actually research. You can't completely side track your economy without signing your life away to someone else, which makes sense.

Also, NTT will work fine, if people have the courage and skill to use their force against someone with superior technology. This game is actually pretty forgiving so long as you don't completely fall behind. Its easy enough to fight with one tech level back troops so long as you use terrain, tactics, and collateral damage to your advantage.

But yeah I'm easy. I'd rather PLAY.

[Rasputin]

Well I believe tech trading should be completely allowed. It is a way for a backward country to make some money on the sly, selling its alliances techs to others.

[MMC]

I agree with Rasputin. Just look at the real world and how inventions travel. Take this thread as a case in point (it gets into a heavy debate about inventions about halfway through).

[deity]

I'll compromise and agree to only trading techs you learn (as we tried half way through HOTW5).

But I don't agree to gifting techs for making peace. This can get out of control whereby techs you learnt and traded are gifted by another civ.

I say trade techs you learn and maybe ONLY ONCE to ONE party. This will avoid tech spamming.

This is better than no tech trading I guess, so that some civs who are lagging can possibly catch up.

[MMC]

We ought to arrange a test game or two to trial the different methods.

[Rasputin]

Pointless, the strong palyers will get the techs and trade only as they want.

[deity]

Originally posted by Rasputin
Pointless, the strong palyers will get the techs and trade only as they want.

You can be my ally anytime Raz

[LzPrst]

thats why we're trying to put down some clever rules that will create balance in the force.

there has to be some easy way to solve this that we havent thought about...

we want the possibility to trade techs without it getting out of hand....

I am at a loss.

TORT seems the easiest solution. at least for now. maybe we will have to dig deep and find some kind of solution if things get out of hand. but lets just try TORT a few times and see how it goes. I'm back at my home computer probably before next weekend and then I'll gladly participate in some testing.

[LzPrst]

oh oh! like deity said! you can only trade a tech once. makes you prioritize a little and so. might be just what we need. if people will accept it. if you dont have too much to do, run a few test trials the next few days.

[MMC]

Trade a tech once... a bit hard to enforce or even just remember. How about a simpler method: You may only trade one tech at a time, and you must research a tech of your own between each trade.

[deity]

Originally posted by MMC
Trade a tech once... a bit hard to enforce or even just remember. How about a simpler method: You may only trade one tech at a time, and you must research a tech of your own between each trade.

I think my idea is actually simpler:

Trade Only Researched Techs Once.

TORTO

This is very easy to keep track of.

[deity]

In HOTW5 I wa first to Democracy and only traded with close allies. I could have spammed it to everyone to get lots more techs but I sat on it to try and create a tyech bloc. But then someone else just headed for Democ and spammed it If we trade ONCE only it prevents this.

[Rasputin]

well i finally got my adsl conencted at home, so i will bre ready to give a game a try soon

[LzPrst]

I think TORTO is a great idea. it should be tested