MP attacking etiquette discussion

[rah]

Ok, now that I'm really into MP, I figured it was time to get peoples opinion on MP attacking etiquette. Simul is a must for all MP games and it works great except during attacks.
So what do you think is fair in attacking in simul?

Should you be able to wait till everyone has moved so you can move those SODs up against the city and advance the turn so the defenders never really get a shot at you before you attack. I think this is not fair and the if the attacker moves next to a city, he shouldn't advance it until the person gets a chance at first wack.

What do you guys think, and how do you deal with this.

And No, I didn't search to see if there was a thread about this already.

[Robert]

I think that turn-based attack will only be possible if there's an option. It will be impossible to do that as an etiquette of honor.

[rah]

I'm not saying turn based totally. Once units have been in a square for a turn facing off, it's a free for all. It's that first moving in. I know in simple early attacks people do it when they meet a solitary unit, and I don't really have a problem with that. It's luck of the draw. But the major attacks are something else. And just wanted to know what people think. I think etiquette of honor is possible in those circumstances.

[OzzyKP]

I hate Simul combat.

[rah]

But the alternative is for games to take way too long.
How do you guys handle it in DIPLO games?

[OzzyKP]

So far we haven't done anything different, so its just straight fastest-finger combat.

I suggested enforcing a turn order during war time, but no one else went for it. So now i just whine about it.

[rah]

I'm not pushing for a turn order. I'm just against waiting to move your stack till everyone has moved so you get a shot to move twice before your victim can respond. Otherwise some will have a mexican standoff waiting to end their turn. This makles the game considerable longer

[Robert]

Originally posted by rah
I'm not saying turn based totally. Once units have been in a square for a turn facing off, it's a free for all. It's that first moving in. I know in simple early attacks people do it when they meet a solitary unit, and I don't really have a problem with that. It's luck of the draw. But the major attacks are something else. And just wanted to know what people think. I think etiquette of honor is possible in those circumstances.

I know, but as long as that 's not possible I say: don't.
And I think that attacking each other is not really a fastest fingerclicking fest. I always move my units in such a way that I avoid being fingerclicked away. It's important to keep this in mind while making your strategy.

[Frank Johnson]

I think in future editions of the game there will be an extra unit flag that forces any stack of units to be motionless 6 seconds or so, even if the turn has refreshed in that time, so theres no quickly moving at the end of a turn, the immediately at the start of the next.

Also, even if you've ended your turn, so long as someone hasn't ended yet you can go back and activate unmoved units when the enemy has exposed their forces.

[Deity Dude]

I think attack order is based on highest score - not fastest finger

[rah]

How many times have you already ended your turn, and an enemy unit appears next to you (and you were fortified so can attack if you want). As you're reaching to activate a unit to attack, they end the turn. (and now of course 4 cities have built something and asking you what to build. and you finished a tech so it wants to know what you want to research) AND YOUR UNIT IS DEAD before you can do anything.

With a single unit on the frontier, I dont have a problem with this but when you lose a city never having had a chance to attack seems kinda of just wrong.

[MMC]

How about agreeing on who the 'aggressor' is for each battle, then they go first (since the defender would normally be 'battening down the hatches' in preparation). Of course if you want to try the classical idea of picking a battle site and time beforehand, you could arrange all your troops to meet, then have an all-out free-for-all (pretty much like they do in films).

EDIT: This wouldn't necessarily work against AI, but unless you have a non-AI-aggression pact with the other human players, I doubt it would really matter.

[MasterDave]

I don't think there is an easy answer here. When I am being attacked, I try to make sure that I am anticipating a possible double move, and plan for it whenever possible. When I am either attacking or defending in a war, if there is extra time at the end of a turn, I will set up production queues so that I do not get pulled away from a battle with build updates the next turn.

However, despite these practices, I have been burned plenty of times by people executing double moves, and I have often had the advantage from attacking first before a defender could move. It is just part of the game and fortunes of war IMO.

A six second flag or whatever was mentioned earlier in the thread would be a nice addition for future balance.

[MMC]

BTW, I just thought about the problem of being in-undated with messages... you can always counter that... there's an option in the Civ4 settings which lets you wait for all your units to move before you get the popup messages. And that's a personal setting, not a MP setting.

Just thought I'd mention it even if people know about it.

[Robert]

What's that setting?