HOTW7 Set up thread

[Metaliturtle]

sweet, sounds like my kind of game

[OzzyKP]

Excellent.

You guys should send PMs to the folks on the diplogaming list who aren't in a game currently.

[LzPrst]

concerning the anachronistic principle. I see your point ozzy, but as I've mentioned, the extent and even use of such a guiding idea is optional.

just to take a real history example, the roman empire had massive trade with india, arabia, the middle east, northern europe and even sub-saharan west africa. on the other hand they had very little dealings with china, despite contact having been established. while india traded massively with china in the east and with rome, persia and east africa in the west, they did not trade with northern europe or sub-saharan west africa.

since persia hindered indian land trade with rome (in order to profit from it) practically all trade between rome and india was done by ship, as was trade with east africa. you get the picture.

what I'm hoping the anachronism effect will do, is help isolating isolated empires a little more. and on terra maps those are usually the big empires. if you use capitals as distance measurements, then relative distance would give an indication when considering a deal when dealing with the question "is this likely to occur given the technological\cultural\distance circumstances?"

my hope is that the "european" nations, those crammed together in a small area, will be given a benefit for their lack of land, while the larger nations will be slightly more limited due to lack of trading partners. also, civs in the middle will also have better opportunity for diplomacy than "fringe" civs, giving them a legup despite being surrounded by rivals. and finally, the extent of this isolation doesnt have to be very extensive, think of the silk road and cross-saharan caravans that existed centuries, if not millennia before the age of seafaring which is in a way the removal of such limitations.

in my opinion, certain things should be more limited than others. for example, sending armies through another nations huge empire to fight a war on the other side of the world should be limited to later eras. unfortunately civ doesnt really represent the difficulty of fielding large armies far from ones homeland. at least not enough.

also, sharing techs, prior to printing press for example should also be somewhat limited to nearby empires to represent the difficulty of spreading ideas to faraway places and cultures (which is not represented in civ mechanics) without a proper medium. on the other hand, if you have missionaries for example you may lower the threshold because.... you get the general idea.

trade routes and resource routes should have a lower treshold for interaction with faraway empires than military campaigns and technological exchange. the reasons are imo obvious, its mostly common sense, the only question, is as you ask, what effect will it have.

if we were to use hotw5 as an example, if china from the start only traded techs (they themselves invented), with either spain or russia until later in the game, those three possibly would not totally out-tech the "euro" civs of france\germany\america(/india) as is the case now. it also might make them feel more protective of certain techs as a tech lead against their neighbours wouldnt be negated immediately by the ravenous tech trading going on, which just results in everyone techwhoring in order of keeping up to speed.

your point that there are fewer civs in civ than in real life is only somewhat valid, if I may be so bold. most technological development have occurred within the important established major empires\kingdoms\countries. and there arent that many of them around simultaneously. while RL history has massive fluctuations of who's in control where, civ is far more stable, with the same civ representing all dynasties or empires of the region the individual civ inhabits.

[The Capo]

I just wanted to make a few comments here, the first is that I am entirely against rules. The Diplogame was started to reflect diplomacy's role in world affairs. The more you limit what players can do the more damage is done to diplomacy's role in the game. I generally agree with what LzPrst said, and I understand that tech trading can be an issue but it only really becomes an issue when there is a high level of competition, i.e. diplomatic strife, where countries feel the need to acquire (mostly) MILITARY technology to prevent their demise. Similarly it stems from a mistrust of others, so groups begin to align who horde techs and don't trade them unless its with their group. So we saw in HOTW V four countries with an amazing tech lead over three others who became uninterested in the game. It is an important issue, and its really the players fault, but you can't blame them.

What I've suggested is that you can't trade a tech unless you've discovered it OR three countries have it, the number three is not solid and can change with any amount of countries in the game. I think this prevents both ends of the spectrum; the first being tech blocs, and the second being eternal control of technology by the top countries.

As for razing capitals and wonders, well, I wouldn't do it but I also don't think there should be a rule for it. Handle as much as you can in the game and you will have a great game. Also post rules never work out, so I wouldn't even go there. This way you seperate the good from the, well, lazy I guess.

Finally the Diplogame CivGroup has been mentioned, I think we need to "modify" the list if we can, ie remove people who are absent now, and in general get a consensus of who is around and who is still interested in playing Diplogames.

[The Capo]

I'm sorry I have to ask this; what is with everyone trying to make diplogames equal? They aren't supposed to be equal, I don't understand this, can somebody explain the reason for it?

Keeping in mind that fairness and equality are two different things.

[OmnipotentTrout]

Did any of you READ my post?

(well, ozzy did )

The shortform of the "diplogame code of honor" is only a short introductory to new players on the general philosophy of the game.

Now, we do have some clear rules I would argue, conserning cheating etc. (Have a look at version 2 of the list please )

We're not discussing rules atm., it's mostly about how to roleplay, or different views of roleplaying.


Lzprst: As I understand these principles, they are in short from about how we in-character should take into account that the countries on the other side of the continent are, well, strangers. I like the idea, and I feel it is included in "staying in character".

[Thrar]

Playing day:
Friday or Saturday or Sunday

Playing time:
17:00-20:00 UTC

Does that mean it could be any of those three days, different each week, or do we decide on one of them and stick to it?
Does the playing time mean we'd start between 5 and 8, or that we play from 5 to 8?

I'd be interested to join, if you don't mind that this would be my first diplogame. I'm generally unavailable on Fridays though, that's why I ask.

[OmnipotentTrout]

Hi Thrar, and Welcome!

The posted days and playing time are suggestions.

17:00-20:00 UTC = Start playing 5 pm. and continue non-stop until 8 pm. UTC

This is just one option that usually works with people from Europe and America playing together (Based on loads of timezone issues). Fridays might be a problem since some of the American players might be at work still...

We can say that the playing time is 17:00-20:00 UTC on Fridays (every friday). Is this acceptable to everyone?

Please let us know if you are in a timezone that this isn't compatible with playing on Fridays 17:00-20:00 UTC, or come with new suggestions

[LzPrst]

er... omni. read thrars post again. he is generally unavailable on fridays....

[OmnipotentTrout]

Oh hehe ::

Sunday 17:00-20:00 UTC then

Are people ok with this, so far?

[Toni]

Good to go

[Metaliturtle]

I have church, so I might show up an hour late on sundays

[Thrar]

So how's 18:00-21:00 then?

[LzPrst]

18:00 - 21:00 UTC would work for me. if I'm gonna be in... (probably will, depending on when we get around to starting, the later the likelier)

[Toni]

Guys any idea when we will start the HOW7?