It seems I'm not alone in disappointment

[Chronus9]

Very inconsistant IMHO, those special units have made a comeback in Civ 4, are they also LAME?

Lawyers and Corporate units are in Civ 4???

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

It seems to be YOU who lacks the ability to understand plain english. I said Civ4 took the BEST elements of CtP and incorporated it into the game-whilst leaving all of the dross well and truly behind. Trust me, there are elements of Civ4 which I hope that they WILL change and/or improve in the 'official' game-because they are things I am still not 100% happy with. The modern age, for instance, though far more involving than in previous iterations, is still not as fun as it could be, and this is a key area I hope they will improve-but CtP's modern age+ was even MORE boring IMO. Given the level of support that Firaxis gives its product, though, I think we are FAR more likely to see major improvements to Civ4 than we ever saw in the entire lifespan of the Call to Power series (which, IMO, will always remain a cheap knock off of the Civ series-just with nicer eye-candy).

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

No, they are not Chronus. All Angrybowman has done is to prove how much he is talking out his 'you know where' -as it is ABUNDANTLY CLEAR that he does not play the game. The main thing which Civ4 took from CtP was the religion system-and even that I think Civ4 did WAY better than CtP ever managed. Also, I might point out that when I first bought the game, everything I had was the bare minimum needed to run the game-except for the video card (256mb). Yet it wasn't until I downgraded to a 128MB videocard that the game worked perfectly. The point is though that my game ran fairly well even with 512MB of RAM, though I upped it to 1Gig recently just so it will run even BETTER!!

Aussie_Lurker.

[Khab]

Originally posted by angrybowen
Khab and Lurker seem to unable to understand my basic point.

Congratulations to both of you for being able to play with systems whose specs are way above those recommended. Mine are the same (well in excess of recommended) except for video card which is 128 mb Ge force 4 SE, not P & V. However, my IT supplier assures me it is much better than the Ge Force 2 quoted in minimum specs requirements, which is 4 years out of date. I have a life other than upgrading my system all the time and I am ENTITLED to read and accept the systems specs printed on the box as they are a legal document. I am not the only once who suggests Firaxis has been deceptive and misleading in this area.

I have trouble shooted my video card through XP and run/dx.diag and it comes back saying it is working correctly(after reloading drivers several times). So today I am ringing the Aust Importer and going to make a formal complaint of Dec and Misld conduct over the system specs. Unless either of you are prepared to buy me a new video card. If not, I refuse to upgrade to play one game because they did not state realistic system specs, so shove it and I will keep you posted of the outcome.

Right. Ok, so it doesn't work on your system. You think Firaxis KNEW this? 'cos if you're gonna go legal, that's what you're going to have to prove. It works on my system, which is similarly specced.

You HAVE contacted 2K support in your area and asked them about the problem, right?

[self biased]

i just find it amusing that the majority of the naysayers in this thread have been registered for four months or less.

[Generaldoktor]

I agree CTP is dead. Funny I liked the game, CTPII more than the first one. Maybe because I liked the ad hype better than Civ and the "post-modern" military units better (underwater and space cities too, so cool, why haven't they come back?) I haven't played the game since CIV3 came out; and I bought the deluxe edition of that and never had any of the technical problems that have made such a mess out of my Civ4 experience.

The designer wears no clothes! Smithldoo, Hexagonian, AngryBowen right on the mark. The rest of you are white-washing and probably get your rocks off on doing system tooling you haven't reported to the rest of us. The "modifications" I have heard suggested are not only way beyond what I can reasonably learn about computer mechanics, but far more than I'd ever want to. I have bought two top-of-line "gamers" system packages from Dell and this is the only game that gives trouble. And yes, the Civopedia does suck on this one and no, I don't need 3D or closeups or change the camera angle on the little figurines that were always too cartoonish to pay serious attention to, except to identify their capabilities in the game, which is now damn difficult when the game is moving at all The designer has no clothes but he does have our money

Intel P4 3.06 ghz, 512mb RDRAM, 128mb DDR ATI Radeon 9700 Pro Graphics; 80gb Dell HD; SoundBlaster Audigy 2 THX sound. Updated drivers, not running ZoneAlarm Pro, SpySweeper or Norton during game, sweep clean temp files and cache after every game.

What else? I'm not going inside the cabinet or paying some neighborhood hack to do so just for this game! I get the flyers of the new systems from Dell and they are not appreciably better than what I bought almost three years ago; to me, it looks like the technology boom has slowed, though I concede I probably should have a 256mb video card. 1024 RAM? For what else would I use that? I'd rather have a game that can be played than a multi-media "Great Work" so Sid's bootlickers at the industry mags can give a bunch more (unearned) rewards

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by self biased
i just find it amusing that the majority of the naysayers in this thread have been registered for four months or less.

I was too busy playing CIV3, the Ancient Med variant and before that, CTP I & II to bother with forums. I came here, yes only recently, for answers; all I've got is industry hype and/or people who agree with me. Again, as in my previous comment today; these games should not just be for hardware hacks or system engineers. Garbage in, garbage out; but I have no doubt there's home hack wizards out there that can make anything run, even Frankenstein's monster

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

I am running a Celeron 2.4GHz system with a 128MB video card (Radeon 9250) and 1Gig of RAM-no tweaks, no modifications of the system-and I can run huge terra maps with nothing more than a 0.5 second lag-at most-when the entire map is revealed. So your games, Generaldoktor, should be running as well-if not better-than mine, and you certainly should not be experiencing the problems you mention. That suggests that it may be a hardware problem which you are experiencing which-though unfortunate-cannot be truly blamed on the game designers.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Mr. President]

Originally posted by Generaldoktor

-foozle-

Dude, whatever you're on, cut the dose!

(And tell me where you bought it. )

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by The_Aussie_Lurker
That suggests that it may be a hardware problem which you are experiencing which-though unfortunate-cannot be truly blamed on the game designers.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

I think I have a hardware problem since I installed the game, my system analyzer says there's a drive "locked" every time I use it. Supposedly this analyzer system ("System Mechanic 6") has the capability to unlock it every time their "total care" program is run, which I have started to do every time after I have a gaming session. Restart is also necessary, which turns back on antii-virus, spysweep and firewall, which as I mentioned yesterday and on other occasions, all have to be deadened to make this game work even passably. A lot of maintenance for a little leisure. I've been getting lockups in late game even when I do that.

Yes I like big maps, lots of opponents and barbs and epic speed. That's the way I played Civ3, including many games of Thamis' excellent Ancient Mediterranean variant, which was somewhat system taxing itself, but never locked on me. That's the way I was led to believe I could play Civ4.

However, I am today going to issue what the White House might call a "partial retraction" of yesterday's rant. I played a big map archipelago with 11 opponents and raging barbs last night as a final test of the patch, which I had not found to be very helpful since I downloaded it last week. The "System Mechanic" program I mention above, I now intuite has some monitoring functions, just like SpySweeper, anti-virus, firewall; so I tried disabling it also. I got to about 1650 A.D. and the game played better, though still not as smooth as Civ3.

I would definitely throw in the caveat that an archipelago game on a low difficulty setting results in extended fog of war and lack of contact by the AI's as they are on separate islands for most of the game. Also, I am certainly not in "late game" yet, which is when many of the others who are complaining get their lockups, as have I in the past. So, I will withold judgement, but definitely think still Firaxis put too much flash and glitter in, understated system requirements and may still have major glitches requiring further patching. 'Nuff said.

[Generaldoktor]

Originally posted by Mr. President


Dude, whatever you're on, cut the dose!

(And tell me where you bought it. )

See "partial retraction" of yesterday's rant above. Our worst drug problem is people on "happy drugs" or their own self-induced trip, including the legendary "opiate of the masses," who see only a bright side as the ship we call this country teeters on the brink. Firaxis' irresponsibility in the manner of their game release is only a microcosmic example of the problem.

You don't need me to get you your Prozac. I can see you're already on it.

[angrybowen]

I have been away for a couple of days. I have posted at Apolyton before but under a different user name. I just started a new one recently as it was easier when I changed Isp's etc.

I have personally messaged and received messages from 6 people who have trouble running Civ 4 and only Civ 4, and not any other recent game. I have tried on a Radeon 9200 as well (laptop), 3.0 equivalent processor, 512 ram. Starts fairly OK, but slow to load etc. Get to 1000 ad on second biggest map and it is getting really slow (as well as the memory leak anyway). Then the map garbled for no reason, one third was like I had stepped inside a wall in a fps game???? I downloaded the patch for my PC, now it won't even load the maps???? Since it seems to be a direct link and install, I have to download the patch separately for the laptop and quiet frankly, I cannot be bothered. So to clarify, that is 2 different computers that have trouble with Civ 4 and ONLY Civ 4 and NOTHING BUT CIV 4.

Re Special units, to clarify. I made a general comment re special units making a come back in civ 4, rather than specifically referring to lawyers and corporate branches (which I thought were just a humorous way of looking at the idea. I could not believe Lurker would totally condemn a game for 2 units???? Obviuously I am wrong.

Religion In CTP2??? There was no religion in CTP2, there was an economic attack that could be performed by a unit called a cleric, that is not really religion.

I agree CTP2 is dead, it was dead 12 months after it came out. However AOM is alive and is now AOM II. Whats more, the Civ 4 debacle has given it new impetous and stancarp is now talking AOM III. I saw a post from someone who has canned his Civ 4, and even bought another ctp2 disc after giving away his original one, so he can play AOM.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

OMG, an entire six people?! Sorry, I take it ALL back, the franchise is completely ruined!!! Seriously, just look at all the polls done around the place and you will see overwhelming support for this game amongst the fans, and a pretty healthy level of support even in non-fanbased sites (like Gamespot and IGN). I never said that people didn't have technical issues with the game, and I am at a loss to explain why they are having the problems, when my relatively low-end system is having no difficulties. I am also greatly saddened because I geniunely feel that these problems are keeping them from enjoying what is, otherwise, a brilliant game!!! CtP, OTOH, touched on some really major issues-such as slavery, religion, piracy, terrorism, international trade and even 'transnational actors' but-almost without exception-made a complete hash of all of them, and the post-modernist elements were absolutely YUCK!!! Now, that is NOT to say I am letting Civ4 completely off the hook either-Religions are still way too 'lovey-dovey' in their application, I don't like the return of spies as units (or their lack of usefulness) and some of the civics options are real 'no-brainers'. Also, I still feel that city growth is still far too attached to food and the modern age is still not as exciting as I feel it could be. That said, it is a HUGE improvement on all the other games of the Civ genre-especially Civ3-and is by far and away the most addictive of all the civ games I have played since the earliest days of Civ2. Also its modability this time out almost ensures that those elements I have a problem with can and will be fixed. Also, because Firaxis has a long history of supporting the fans and modding community, I won't be suprised if we see many of the best mods adapted and utilised in a future expansion pack.

Yours,
Aussie_Lurker.

[Generaldoktor]

If six people are "disenfranchised" from enjoying the game they paid the $55 for, it is still all the world significant for them, especially with all the hype from the people who claim to enjoy it so very, very much. Also, the polling isn't scientific, we might well represent the tip of the iceberg; I have seen many more complaints on a number of other threads.

In general, tech issues aside, AussieLurker's gameplay criticisms are certainly valid as well. But, regarding "future expansions," the comment has been made that we paid to get it at least mostly right the first time and shouldn't have to pay again, except maybe for very optional features that add to the experience, not make it merely acceptable.

I don't understand all this criticism of Civ3. I wouldn't be here without that game and again, no tech issues ever on my machine with that, not even with the widely-criticized PTW expansion. I bought Civ 2 and have it out in the garage somewhere, compared to CTP which I was playing to death at the time, it looked hokey.

I have talked to Mr. Karpinski about AOM, but I am wary of mods from amateur engineers without a track record, despite my positive experiences with Ancient Med and RAR. Here we have a crackerjack outfit like Firaxis who may have permanently f-cked up the video drives on my top-of-line Dell; and I am supposed to trust some huge bandwidth download from an amateur site. Hmnn. Well I am about to shelve the vaunted Civ4 pending "future" resuscitation and I still do have those old CTP discs, maybe it isn't such a bad idea after all.

[hexagonian]

Originally posted by Generaldoktor
I have talked to Mr. Karpinski about AOM, but I am wary of mods from amateur engineers without a track record, despite my positive experiences with Ancient Med and RAR. Here we have a crackerjack outfit like Firaxis who may have permanently f-cked up the video drives on my top-of-line Dell; and I am supposed to trust some huge bandwidth download from an amateur site. Hmnn. Well I am about to shelve the vaunted Civ4 pending "future" resuscitation and I still do have those old CTP discs, maybe it isn't such a bad idea after all.

Several observations...

I have also played TAM - probably more than I played civ3.

I also know about AOM, having played it and been part of the development process. In fact, AOM is based on my own Cradle mod. You can say that there is a certain bias in what I say next...but I feel that AOM is a much deeper gaming experience than TAM. If you liked TAM, you will love AOM and it is worth the time to download and play, especially if you do like the concepts of the CTP series.

Performancewise it is a lot quicker than civ4 and it is stable too.

To be honest, if you follow the AOM discussions, my opinions are not always rosy about AOM either. Just ask angrybowen and smithadoo about some of my observations, which I guarantee they do not agree with. It is a game - and as such, is not perfect. But it is very good.

Some other thoughts...

- AOM is officially supported and sanctioned by Apolyton, and will have it's own forum here in the next few weeks. That, to me, says the owners of this site recognize quality to take a so-called 'amateur project' and give it visual ad support and space to host a very large download for free - probably the largest download on this site too.

That is ironic, because the 'professional' game of civ4 has a large percentage of players who feel that the game (out-of-the-box) is underperforming on their systems. Even those who are thrilled with the game talk about the need to save/reload to get the game to clear memory, they report crashes and skipping movies, and they also report slow performance on systems that meet requirements. The first time I played a large map, I played about 20 turns - I had contact with 4 civs on a turn, and the game promptly fell into a tar pit on my system that is above minimum (at least 2x) on every spec.

Sorry, but the fix 'quit the game and reload' is half-a**ed, and is a poor reflection on a 'professional' company...

Now having said all of that, the first civ4 patch has helped a lot (for me, at least). I now get acceptable performance on a large map, though I have only started one game on that size and I am only in 1400AD. It may start lagging as I get into the modern age. The Wonder movies do not skip anymore, though the intro movie is still dodgy unless I go to Windowed mode. So I consider the patch a partial fix, and am confident that future patches will eventually clean up the mess.

They had better, because Firaxis probably raked in a lot of cash over the past month!