Civilization 4: Age of Empires 2 TBS edition

[Arrian]

Resting on one's laurels is bad enough, but when one's laurels is "being good at MP CivII" !!

The game sucks because I can't adapt!

-Arrian

[Fidel]

Originally posted by EEKthedog
He wasn't dominating at all. He was getting his ass kicked more often than he ever expected would happen.
First when joining he had a 2-7 record. He then resigned and came back under a different name, and still not being able to win the majority of the games.

That lead to "mr. pro in his dream" here to make posts on the ladder forum complaining how noobs can luck out and beat "the best civ player ever". What happened was that some other bloke simply did a better job and came up with strategies he didn't know how to deal with. So much for getting "a very good grasp of the strategies" and "complete domination".

he probably lost because he could not produce enough musketmen...

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142681&pagenumber=3

[StarLightDeath]

That name that was 2-7 was done the very first day i got the game. Every other name I usually got to about 5-1 or so and would lose a game and have a few people who hadn't reported matches to me so I'd dump it and get a new name. StarlightDeath was 10-2. The name I'm currently on is 19-3, go try and find it. Two of the losses I have on this name are to a guy who is probably 3rd or 4th in skill on the ladder or even better. Did I say i was the best? No. I'm probably 5th or 6th in terms of skill. When you get to that point come talk to me.

Oh, and Ragnoff, don't think I can't see you on the Civ4players forum just because they banned my IP. I see all the bull**** you're making up so be careful who you play on the ladder.

[CanuckSoldier]

19-4 actually, but that's being nitpicky

CS

[StarLightDeath]

Well actually I'm 21-4 now but 2 people disconnected on me and I haven't seen them since. Had a really bad game vs Tommynt which gave me my 4th loss. Btw, war chariots either need to be nerfed or Copper needs to become more consistent in where it is found. It is typically too long to get to iron working by the time war chariots are all over the place and without spearmen or axemen or something the game is pretty much over. Horsearchers do an ok job, but horsebackriding takes forever to research and isn't really much of a counter.

[Fidel]

still waiting for that 'every musketman kills a navy seal' recipe.

[StarLightDeath]

60% culture bonus, choose aggressive civ, get Theocracy+Vassalage, build barracks and get city defense upgrades, build Chichen Itza, fortify. Let stand for 5 turns. 23.6 Strength with first 2 city defense upgrades, add in third by winning 1 battle and you get the picture.

[Arrian]

That's an awful lot of effort in order to turtle in a city with muskets... couldn't the opposition rip up one's countryside (where the muskets would lose all bonii except for promos - unless the promos are city defense, in which case it's a simple 9 str?)?

-Arrian

[StarLightDeath]

First of all, I do vassalage+Theocracy every single game. It's really easy to do if you have half a brain. If you subtract Chichen Itza then I guess I won't beat navay seals every time anymore...just tanks or something. If you use a creative civ you are almost guaranteed to hit 60% on all your cities. At the very least you'll hit 50% with walls which can't be destroyed by espionage or anything like in civ2. In addition, the common argument is that you just roll up with your stack and throw in some cannons and it's a cake walk...so why won't people take into account my own cannons and catapults? So while I am wasting your stack (and sending in reinforcements 5 times as fast) you are sitting there trying to bombard my defenses down. And once you get rid of the city defense percentage you are still dealing with the fortification+upgrade bonuses which still makes me nearly twice as strong as your units attacking and that's before I rape your ass with 10 cannons. The only thing that takes effort to defend is building chichen Itza and if you use a great leader your problems are cured. We all know how fast barracks build with an aggressive civ...so where is the difficulty in all this? Sure you can try to choke me, but while you're pillaging I'm using my triple and in many cases quadruple upgraded units with cannons as I rip you apart. Choke doesn't work in mid-late game.

[Aeson]

How does that Musketman drive off the Seal who instead of blindly attacking just pillages all your tiles, or with it's buddies, starves the city to size one by allowing no useable tiles? Or the one who covers some bombardment while they get rid of your % defense bonus first? Or one who isn't green, and instead of 24str has Pinch for +25% against that Musket, +10% from Combat I, not to mention the 1-2 first strikes that Seals get as a bonus.

While you are sorta right that a Musket can in very specific cases be close to as strong as a Seal (though you forget about the first strikes and give XP only to the Musket), the Seal will always be dictating the circumstance because the Musket can't force the Seal to attack or do anything to stop the Seal from it's other options.

[StarLightDeath]

First of all, nobody is going to get a navy seal while you have musketman. It's simply not possible to get that kind of a tech lead. I use it as an example of how powerful you can make a defending unit. And I already answered why just pillaging my countryside isn't going to work. Sure you'll hit a few improvements, but nothing I can't fix with serfdom in 2 turns. Oh, and lets not forget the all powerful healing of units inside of your borders so once you hit a couple cannons on those stacks pillaging it is all over.

[Fidel]

somebody has to pin this. priceless bit of info.
even without 1-2 first strikes, seal would win 62-75% of the cases

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=137615&page=2

still waiting for 'i can always make my musketman beat seals' scenario.

[Aeson]

Eyes, your Cannons and Catapults would suck (to insanely sucky levels) against Seals who are used anywhere near correctly. Who's going to give you collateral damage chances when each Seal can hold their own just fine without stacking? They don't need big stacks with that sort of tech advantage. At most they need a stack of 1 Seal and 1 bombardment unit to reduce your defensive bonuses to 0%.

[StarLightDeath]

The fact that I can even win one time is poor design. Could you imagine rolling in navy seals in Medieval Europe? lol Would be hillarious.

[Aeson]

Originally posted by StarLightDeath
First of all, nobody is going to get a navy seal while you have musketman. It's simply not possible to get that kind of a tech lead.

But it's the one you are offering as a given. If you don't want to have it as the topic for debate, don't bring it up. Simple.

Sure you'll hit a few improvements, but nothing I can't fix with serfdom in 2 turns.

As your Workers get onto tiles how?

Oh, and lets not forget the all powerful healing of units inside of your borders so once you hit a couple cannons on those stacks pillaging it is all over.

It's not stacks though. Don't need them. Only an idiot assumes that stacking Seals vs Muskets/Cannon units is a good idea. You seem to think it's the only way, but there are much, much better ways to approach such a situation.