First Impressions (screenshots, etc.)

[yin26]

Solver: Is there a way to get a random map? Anyway, following LaRussuo's request, I am doing everything as random as I can on this next game, though the map itself remains Highlands. Turned off both timed and space victories. We're gonna settle this thing on Earth if it takes us, well, thousands of years!



By the way, I've never done a random era start. This could be really interesting.

[Atahualpa]

I had the AI attack me with a clever organized stack of 1 catapult, 1 axeman and some mounted units. Strangely however, when the catapult attacked me, not my keshik (+50% vs catapults) but that swordsman decided to defend. Shouldn't it rather be the horseman?

In another game however the AI was pretty weak and did little to turn against me. His cities were well defended though.

Due to wars being much more complicated now, I have fought very little of them though.

[yin26]

Yes, figuring out the new AI is fun. Speaking of, I forgot to mention in my last screenshot that the AI level was put up a level to Prince. Together with the aggressive AI option, this could be interesting.

[yin26]

Interesting start. Small map. Just 3 players. I have already scouted the whole map!

[hexagonian]

I am really struck by the AI's abilities to wage a pillage war on a large scale. This is very promising because the war of attrition does not merely have to be army-vs-army or straight city conquest.

To see the AI use tactics that usually were the domain of players, well...color me impressed - very impressed indeed. There really appears to be some nuanced and subtle gameplay elements that, even if not totally balanced, should be tweakable.

I'm waiting for the report on straight battle tactics.

I'm becoming more and more of a convert.

[Solver]

Yin: no way for a random map script that I know of. Continents is the most random script itself, per se.

BTW, I certainly enjoy regular games with Ancient start more, you really should play with those around first to get a feel for the early game.

Anyway, this time around, you're more screwed. I see you started with Montezuma as your closest neighbour, which is never a good thing. The guy's aggressive like a madman, if you're close to him, there WILL be a war.

Knowing nothing else, I'd say that the game depends on Roosevelt. If you can get him on your side, you can make it, if Roosevelt sides with Montezuma, you're screwed.

[Solver]

I am really struck by the AI's abilities to wage a pillage war on a large scale. This is very promising because the war of attrition does not merely have to be army-vs-army or straight city conquest.

To see the AI use tactics that usually were the domain of players, well...color me impressed - very impressed indeed. There really appears to be some nuanced and subtle gameplay elements that, even if not totally balanced, should be tweakable.

I'm waiting for the report on straight battle tactics.

I'm becoming more and more of a convert.

I couldn't be more glad to hear this . Plus, I hope that Firaxis keeps up with the tradition of further improving the AI in patches.

[yin26]

Montezuma has attacked already, which is great! It seems clear the aggressive AI setting works. As Solver noted, though, in a 3-way free-for-all that Montezuma and Roosevelt need only to ally to see my sure destruction. Love it!

[Solver]

Even without the aggressive AI setting he would have attacked probably, he's a hard guy to deal with .

This is probably going to be a short game, if I may suggest the next game: Pangaea, large map (more civs really increases the dynamics), Prince, aggressive AI off (so you can gauge their normal behaviour).

[yin26]

LOL! Man, got worked over. It was fun to see. Montezuma first came in with a mounted-only attack, so, knowing this from last game, I had lots of spearmen ready. I beat back his first wave quite well and was ready to feel proud of myself.

He then threw probably 12 units at me, this time a lot more mixed. Interestingly, mainly, this time, archers + mounted archers. The archers, of course, were the perfect counter to my spearmen. In short order, I lost two cities and he offered peace (not quite sure why the AI does this). But it's clear it's over, and I will now try Solver's settings.

Civ 4 - 2 : Yin - 0

[Solver]

I assume Montezuma didn't have any metals, or he would have brought Axemen instead of Archers. Nice to see that he also did well under such circumstances.

The AI is sometimes a bit too willing to offer peace, maybe. Then again, it was confident you're dead.

So, now that you experienced it, got any comments on the combat yet ?

[yin26]

Well, the most important thing is that I'm taking a beating! Love it. But I am still baffled at the decision not to have stacked combat. I suppose at the heart of it, the 1 v 1 way things play out isn't so far off from what happens in stacked combat when you drop down to the battlefield view. And HoMM has really spoiled me on how stacked unit interaction can become something really interesting in combat.

So while I'm most interested in the result on this one and less on the process, I'm curious, Solver, if you, too, don't think more could be done to spice up the feel of combat? I should say, though, that the promotion system is pure genius. Yes, let me highlight this. It adds a really fun aspect to the game!

Thus, I would say that I need more time with the combat system to understand it better and to put the larger pieces of the puzzle in place. Mostly, though, I'm feeling far more positive than not.

What is your view of combat?

[Solver]

I love the combat system. It was yet another thing that I was skeptical before joining the beta team and excited after. Before: "Oh no, one vs. one unit combat again, although maybe not that boring this time". After: "Damn I love this combat system, it's actually balanced and exciting!".

I've played a fair number of games by now, and still haven't tried many of the promotion combinations. Only recently I discovered the joys of Flanking II + Mobility mounted units, these things can zoom across any terrain, attack and retreat.

The promotion system is genius, and it's very well visible in how different the same unit type becomes by promotions. A Swordsman that is Combat I - Cover - City Raider I is an awesome unit to take cities with, while a Combat I - Medic I - Shock Swordsman is a good all-round unit that has a decent chance vs. its direct counter.

The Civ4 combat isn't very far off from stacked combat indeed. After all, you use stacks of units with mixed arms, there are advantages to ranged units (first strikes), there is collateral damage... the overall system is good and indeed looks like it even is fairly realistic.

I'm excited .

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Atahualpa
I had the AI attack me with a clever organized stack of 1 catapult, 1 axeman and some mounted units. Strangely however, when the catapult attacked me, not my keshik (+50% vs catapults) but that swordsman decided to defend. Shouldn't it rather be the horseman?

Mounted units only get their bonus against siege when attacking, and not when defending.

[dannyevilcat]

Originally posted by yin26
In short order, I lost two cities and he offered peace (not quite sure why the AI does this).

Perhaps he's expanded as much as he can afford, due to maintenance?